Scimitar Based 1950's Style Race Car - Page 9

WorldClassAccident · #**161** 11th March 2012, 15:58

gary - I absolutely agree about how much better the car looks when you can see it for real that in the pictures. I still love it and am still buying one. i am interested in hearing about your plans for the wheel arches. If you can show me what you are thinking I think i would prefer them on mine.

I am sure that when you get it painted most of the comments will disappear.

The limitation of the donor is the length between the door and the rear arch. That to me is the only bit that visually jars with the rest. The idea of losing that length by using a TVR donor was my first plan. Now I am thinking of hiding some of it with air vents for the brakes of something.

Still a thing of beauty. Don't take anything I say as a criticism, it is better than anything else I have looked at.

Nike55 · #**162** 11th March 2012, 17:02

Yes, you really do have to see the G46 in the flesh to appreciate the nuances of the design.

The matt tones in the pictures flatten the image somewhat and a good colour paint job, (whether it be Italian Racing Red, German Racing Silver or British Racing Green) will bring out the styling.

Period detailing will only enhance the design..

Alpha · #**163** 11th March 2012, 17:31

Gary, please excuse us for all our comments on the looks of your babies! I can imagine that the criticism hits hard after all the hard work you put into them.

But rest assured that our intentions are only to be constructive.

Looking at what you have been able to come up with to date, we have total faith that once you've finished the G46 and Cordite to your liking, we'll have two more gorgeous cars to look at and dream about :-)

keep up the good work !

Baz from Brussels

volospian · #**164** 11th March 2012, 18:43

Hi guys, noob poster here, but I'm currently restoring an SE5 Scimitar and stumbled across the G46. I've been lurking for a few days reading this thread with interest and just thought I'd post my thoughts.

So.... I think the cockpit is too far forward for my taste. I understand exactly why it's in that position, being based upon the standard scim, and I think it will probably look OK when the car is complete and painted, but for me personally I prefer the "classic" sportscar look of short rear and a long bonnet, al la the 300SLR, C-Type, etc.

However, I'm wondering just how difficult it would be to commission a version where the cockpit has been moved back and the bonnet extended?

It makes the effort worthwhile in my opinion as, for a start, my scimitar is in pieces in the garage at the moment and the body has had a smack in the nose at some time, the roll bars have rotted out (as seems common) and need repairing, and the steel reinforcement tube that runs up the A pillar has rotted out and needs replacing so I'm going to have to do quite a bit of fettling to the existing body to make it suitable if I want to keep it, so cutting the old body off and chopping and shutting the floor pan to move the driver back 6"-10" or so isn't really going to be any more work than I'll already have to do, if you know what I mean.

Secondly, I'm fitting a Rover V8 with 5 speed LT77 'box. From some of the pics I've seen of other conversions, this can be a tight squeeze in the standard engine bay with the crank nose pushed up only millimetres from the steering rack. Moving the seat (and thus the bulkhead) back would also allow me to mount the engine further back, bringing more of the weight into the centre of the car and leaving more room in front to clear the rack, plus more room for a decent rad and perhaps an intercooler (as I'm thinking of a blower..).

I think moving the floor around would require some additional metal in the chassis as the position of the driver relative to the outriggers would move but and you would lose some support but, again, my chassis needs a spot of welding anyway so adding the relevant supporting metal would only be a little more work.

Anyway, I just thought I'd put my 2p in and see what people think...

lancelot link · #**165** 11th March 2012, 20:31

Firstly ....thank you for your comments - I take on board all comments , good and bad ...when you work around this stuff all day , you sometimes can get a bit blinkered ..its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....

I could do a shorter tailed , longer bonneted version of the body , its not too bad to do ....the flip front helps.

You would have to chop and section your floorpan , move the bulkhead , lengthen the column etc. but its all do-able....

A body completed to that spec would probably cost about an extra £500.

THE CHASSIS WOULD NEED TO BE LEFT ALONE AND EXTRA BRACING INCORPORATED INTO THE INTERNAL FRAMEWORK....

All do-able and would be a great car....just extra work to get there !!

If I wasn't all spent up on developing as it is , I might have had a go at it !!

Happy to do a one off for someone though !!

WorldClassAccident · #**166** 11th March 2012, 20:35

I might be a volunteer for the long nose prototype. Just found out I have to buy another house so there may be a short pause in my project

WorldClassAccident · #**167** 11th March 2012, 21:17

The screen moved back, the hump moved back and some really bad editing but hopefully you see the basic idea.

WorldClassAccident · #**168** 11th March 2012, 21:25

there you go

Charman.tech · #**169** 11th March 2012, 22:11

Gary and all others

Gary said to us when we bought the G46 that everyone would end up being personal no one car the same.

We knew the limitations on the rear quarter when viewed from the side, incidentally ours is in a dark blue gel coat and does look a lot less bulky.

After lots of deliberation Charlie and I are incorporating the following. but did not want to say anything until we had got the work under-way.

1. We are setting the doors back 200mm cutting and refitting both front and rear bulk heads whilst leaving the centre section of the cill in place.

2. Forming round wheel arches.

3. Fixing the front end solid and cutting in a bonnet.

4. Square of the back end like a sbarro

5. As we are using the V8 having the exhaust exposed running down each side in a recessed cill under the door sections only

It's all ambitious, but we will get there and certainly no comment on Gary's design, without Gary's inspiration we would not be able to make what I hope will be improvements to suit our taste.

Lots of sports cars have this long wheel base ie series 111 E type.

So we hope to:

1. increase the focal length between the back of the front wheel arch to the door. decrease the focal length of from the rear of the door to the front of the rear wheel arch

2. Put the drivers bum nearer to the rear axel.

3. Smooth the side by loosing the bonnet shut lines.

4. Reduce the focal height between the under side of the door and the cill.

The car is all marked up with lines and where to cut, finished rebuilding the front suspension to day so it's now sitting on its wheels.

We are using a set of 15" 205 x 70 series 111 E type wire wheels. With the rover v8 and gear box in place it sits very high I think we are going to need to reduce the coil overs from 15" down to about 10" and have some softer springs.

Gary's last photo shot is more where we hope to be, will post some photos as soon as we have done the surgery.

Roadster · #**170** 12th March 2012, 05:14

i like your plan"Chairman"
I can't wait until a Sammio gathering when can get these all together.

All kitcars are different built to the builders personal taste - but in recent years this has started to be paint and wheels. If you look at the big club displays at Stoneleigh.

Garry's cars are different he provides a basic starter kit at a price that allows us to get creative and build as we think. I can't imagine a Cordite being built by a man following a build manual.

When we all get together with all our variations it will baffle anybody who doesn't know the marque.

What are you going to take to the shows this year Garry?
Are you going to Detling this year?

volospian · #**171** 12th March 2012, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charman.tech

After lots of deliberation Charlie and I are incorporating the following. but did not want to say anything until we had got the work under-way.

1. We are setting the doors back 200mm...

2. Forming round wheel arches.

3. Fixing the front end solid and cutting in a bonnet.

5. As we are using the V8 having the exhaust exposed running down each side in a recessed cill under the door sections only

It's all ambitious, but we will get there and certainly no comment on Gary's design, without Gary's inspiration we would not be able to make what I hope will be improvements to suit our taste.

This sounds exactly what I have been thinking. I have mocked up a really bad photochop of pretty much that picture (although I'm thinking of both exhausts exiting down one side in a similar vein to the C-Type). I would like dual "headrest" humps too as I really like the look of 722. I have flattened off the bonnet a bit and straightened the bottom sill lines too...

I can only load it up to skydrive at the moment, so it won't embed. The link should work though...

garyh · #**172** 12th March 2012, 07:31

Looks great, I like the side pipes

volospian · #**173** 12th March 2012, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancelot link

Firstly ....thank you for your comments - I take on board all comments , good and bad ...when you work around this stuff all day , you sometimes can get a bit blinkered ..its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....

I could do a shorter tailed , longer bonneted version of the body , its not too bad to do ....the flip front helps.

You would have to chop and section your floorpan , move the bulkhead , lengthen the column etc. but its all do-able....

A body completed to that spec would probably cost about an extra £500.

THE CHASSIS WOULD NEED TO BE LEFT ALONE AND EXTRA BRACING INCORPORATED INTO THE INTERNAL FRAMEWORK....

All do-able and would be a great car....just extra work to get there !!

If I wasn't all spent up on developing as it is , I might have had a go at it !!

Happy to do a one off for someone though !!

Well, that's very interesting news

TBH I was expecting it to be a lot more than that. I don't mind the extra work from my end and don't even mind making some minor mods myself once I have the main body (such as potentially cutting in a bonnet, for example). Plus my next door neighbour used to make car bodies for a living and has a sideline of making aluminium odds and ends from his garage (having a neighbour with a plasma cutter, english wheel and a sheet folder in his garage comes in handy!), so I do have some assistance if required. And as I said in my first post, I have plenty of work cut out if I even wish to keep the existing body so it's not that different.

I wasn't sure about the chassis, I was just assuming it would need support and that would have to be past of the chassis. I take it from your caps that welding in additional supports could be seen as modifying the chassis and raise issues regarding SVA, or something?

Well, I think I may have found a way forward on this one then...

Charman.tech · #**174** 12th March 2012, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by volospian

This sounds exactly what I have been thinking. I have mocked up a really bad photochop of pretty much that picture (although I'm thinking of both exhausts exiting down one side in a similar vein to the C-Type). I would like dual "headrest" humps too as I really like the look of 722. I have flattened off the bonnet a bit and straightened the bottom sill lines too...

I can only load it up to skydrive at the moment, so it won't embed. The link should work though...

That is it exactly!!!!!!!!! but the exhausts will be set back under the door cill and only exposed under the door so they will turn within the front wing, when you see that space within the cill in the flesh there is plenty of room to do that.

The way we are doing this is to slice the G46 bulk head do the middle side to side leaving one part where it is and the other part re-positioned 200mm further back.

We will also form a vertical bulk head in ply with a top going back to the metal frame where we will re-position the pedal box. If you look at my early posts under G46 V8 Mk1 you will see how tight the V8 sits and how difficult it will be the get the rear two cylinders exhaust pipes in, this goes some way to improving this. I don't think you could set the engine much further back than we have done. (front pulley millimetres from the steering rack) without cutting the existing bulk head to render it useless.

The balance in the position we have must end up nearly 50/50 back and front.

Not sure how you are going to get both sets of exhaust down one side?

Also when we form the bonnets (don't know how yet) we may also take a bit of height out of it as well.

Love the photo mock up.

Now back to work

volospian · #**175** 12th March 2012, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancelot link

I take on board all comments , good and bad ...its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....

PS. Just to let you know some other feedback... The wife and I were having dinner with some friends on Saturday and us men (after retiring to the smoking room for a cigar and brandy, naturally

) got around to discussing the G46 (he's currently doing a body off resto of a GT6). He thinks it looks great as it is and reminds him of the Rover Turbine race cars, and mid engined racers, etc. He said it has real presence and gave you the big thumbs up.

volospian · #**176** 12th March 2012, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charman.tech

That is it exactly!!!!!!!!! but the exhausts will be set back under the door cill and only exposed under the door so they will turn within the front wing, when you see that space within the cill in the flesh there is plenty of room to do that.

The way we are doing this is to slice the G46 bulk head do the middle side to side leaving one part where it is and the other part re-positioned 200mm further back.

We will also form a vertical bulk head in ply with a top going back to the metal frame where we will re-position the pedal box. If you look at my early posts under G46 V8 Mk1 you will see how tight the V8 sits and how difficult it will be the get the rear two cylinders exhaust pipes in, this goes some way to improving this. I don't think you could set the engine much further back than we have done. (front pulley millimetres from the steering rack) without cutting the existing bulk head to render it useless.

The balance in the position we have must end up nearly 50/50 back and front.

Not sure how you are going to get both sets of exhaust down one side?

Also when we form the bonnets (don't know how yet) we may also take a bit of height out of it as well.

Love the photo mock up.

Now back to work

I think I know what you mean with the pipes...

I was assuming that I would pull the entire bulkhead back, sort of chop (most of) the rear footwell out and rebond the entire front of the floor pan to the back, if you see what I mean. That way the entire section would come back several inches, giving more room for the engine... Although TBH I haven't actually considered exactly how this would work, I just lay on the floor under the body yesterday looking at how the mouldings line up with the chassis and wondering what would happen if I chopped some out

I'm not really sure how to do a single side exit either, but I was thinking of TVR Chimaera style forward exit manifolds into a single (or twin) system, then running that single (or twin) pipe back past the engine, etc and out one side... or it may end up being two pipes exiting on one side, like a 300SLR. Again, it's only a thought at the moment with aesthetics outweighing practicality

lancelot link · #**177** 13th March 2012, 18:14

Yes Volo , you need to be very careful about chassis mods ....it can change the game somewhat.

Thanks for the positive stuff guys and the reworkings are really interesting....

shortening pans , moving bulkheads , lengthening steering columns , moving engines etc. is all extra work but none of it is too horrendous....the crucifixal chassis makes life very simple in comparison with other examples and it would be game over on a monocoque...

I love the flexibility of these concepts and the fact that everyone is putting in their views and bouncing ideas about is great.....bit like an online garage night !!

I have soo many ideas it just isn't possible to do them all......yet !!

My demonstrator for this year will start off as a Cordite bodied Spitfire chassis to show that the Cordite package works and to get the all important pictures for press and website etc....once we have done that I have a sort of plan to build a bit of a Mongrel ....mixing up the Cordite and Spyder and incorporating bits from both cars on one demonstrator to try and cater for both kits.....

WorldClassAccident · #**178** 13th March 2012, 19:34

I have been thinking about the 'moving the cabin back' idea. I think it will look better and am happy to act as the guinea pig for Gary's restyle.

I was just wondering what happens to the gear stick?

If it stays where it is I will need to reach behind the heater vents to change gear which might prove challenging. I guess we could fit some king of swan necked gear stick but what are your thoughts?

volospian · #**179** 13th March 2012, 20:46

I'm intending to move the engine and gearbox backwards. It's also going to be a rover v8 which is longer than the essex and it will be bolted to an lt77 box, which is again longer than the standard scimitar box, so I don't think I'll have any issues with gear stick placement if I moved the cockpit back.

Nike55 · #**180** 13th March 2012, 21:13

That's the interesting bit .. move one thing and and you have a domino effect...

WCA - would it not be possible to arrange a remote shifter, using a couple of small U-J's and some rod?

Having read the recent threads I've had a complete change of thought and rather than trying to impose Merc SLR or Ferrari 401S dna onto Gary's design, I'm looking forward to completing mine as a totally 'standard' G46! Strange it took me so long to get that.