Deni's Miglia Build [Archive] - Madabout Kitcars Forum

deni

31st March 2017, 21:47

Hi Everybody,

My name is Deni. Approx. 2 years ago I've bought Triumph Herald rolling chassis and it included a Spitfire 1500 engine and a single rail 4 gear box as well as a Miglia kit. As you can see, it took a while to get the build going, for all sorts of reasons, but I have now finally started!!!

Just to warn you all, I am probably the least experienced car builder you will ever 'meet', but reading your threads I was inspired and thought I am going to give it a go.

This might be a slow build but I hope to finish the car and will do my best to persevere and muddle through to the end.

I have started only a few weeks ago and had a chance to go to the garage a few times, so you did not miss a lot - mainly cleaning and painting the chassis and other attached bits, which is probably not the most interesting part anyway. I was very lucky to buy, what I think is a rolling chassis in a very good condition, which should make the build a little bit easier hopefully.

I will try to upload some photos to bring us to a current point in the build.

So here we go.....

deni

31st March 2017, 22:07

..just testing uploading the photos.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=65&pictureid=1054

deni

31st March 2017, 23:41

It's getting late tonight but I will upload more photos in a next few days.

Cheers,
D

Barber

1st April 2017, 05:42

Good luck matey.

Paul L

1st April 2017, 08:29

Deni - Great to see you have started a build thread. :cool:

It certainly looks like the engine and chassis are in good condition.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4238&d=1490993158

… I am probably the least experienced car builder ...

Oi! I resemble that remark.

:wink:

Jokes aside, if I could get my car on the road, anything is possible.

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

10th April 2017, 15:07

Pictures of chassis before cleaning and painting...

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Second hand swing spring I bought...

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deni

10th April 2017, 15:09

Hi Barber and Paul L - thank you guys for your posts. I will post a few more photos later on and that will bring us to the point in the build where I am now (mainly cleaning and painting the various bits!).

Next time I can work on the car will be Weds and I will make more photos and post them afterwards.

Cheers,
D

deni

10th April 2017, 16:27

I know that a lot of you replaced suspension bushes at this stage for polyurethane bushes but for now I'm going to keep it simple as these look in decent condition. I'd like to build this car as quickly as possible keeping the costs down, and wait and see how it drives and then keep tinkering on it when it's finished. I have also bought a one inch lowering block but for now, I'll keep the original shock absorbers before I decide about GAZ adjustable shocks.

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Chassis is paint stripped and treated with Kurust (everything except the main middle bit which was in excellent condition) and everything is painted with 3 layers of chassis black.

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Diff casing is also cleaned, treated with Kurust and painted
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deni

10th April 2017, 16:36

To balance the car handling, the anti-roll bar at the front needed to be upgraded too. I have bought 7/8" Spitfire one and this will replace the original Herald one.

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Cleaned and treated with Kurust.

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Both drum hubs had some cracking on them and were replaced with brand new ones. I have inspected the condition of the rear brakes and it was excellent.

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deni

10th April 2017, 16:46

Also, bought a second-hand Spitfire petrol tank with sender unit (I hope it works!)

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Stripped and cleaned.

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Treated with Kurust, then painted with red oxide primer (no photo, but it can be seen in the photo of the new brake drums)

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And finally painted with 2 layers of black.
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deni

10th April 2017, 16:52

Spitfire pedals, stripped, cleaned and treated with Kurust, then painted with 2 layers of grey primer and a top layer of gun metal grey.

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That's how far I've got until now - so now you are up to date...

Cheers,
D :dance:

swifty

10th April 2017, 20:56

Looking forward to seeing the build, any ideas for the interior.

lancelot link

10th April 2017, 21:47

Promising start ..keep us updated with pics please ...

deni

11th April 2017, 19:48

Gary - thanks, I will keep uploading the photos. I will have some time tomorrow to work on the car and will make more photos.

Swifty - welcome! I have a rough idea about the interior. I have bought second hand MGB seats and the panels (I'm not going to use the panels but the material they are covered with as the colour matches the seats). The colour is autumn leaf, which I like. They are in the storage at the moment, so I will make a picture later.

I know that the seats could be a bit big, but we shall see...for the rest, I would like to use aluminium panels and rivets to do the paneling inside, and try to do some detailing using the material I've bought, but I still do not have a clear idea. Part of the challenge is to do it as you go I guess.

I've followed your build, and your fabrication skills are amazing, so I guess you can visualise things and just make them, and your car turned out a stunner.
I will just try to learn as I go and we'll see what I come up with.

Cheers,
D

Mister Towed

11th April 2017, 20:29

Hi Deni, I bought a pair of MGB seats to put in my Spyder and they turned out to be too big. You might struggle to get them into your Miglia as the bodies are somewhat similar in size I believe.

The problem is the width when you lower them enough to avoid the dreaded 'Noddy' driving position.

It looked like they'd be fine on first trial fit -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/003-12.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/003-12.jpg.html)

Still looked okay with the floorpan dropped to lower them -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/010-1.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/010-1.jpg.html)

But then you add the frame and, oh dear, they don't fit -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/013.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/013.jpg.html)

Don't be tempted to fit them above the chassis rails (as in the first pic above), you really won't enjoy the car if your seating position is too high.
It would be very uncomfortable and your head will ruin the aerodynamics.

Ideally you want your eyes to be level with the top of the flyscreen and your shoulders to be just above the edge of the cockpit so you can drop your elbow over the side while you're out cruising.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

DaveP

12th April 2017, 07:30

If the MGB seats are a no-go consider some out of a Ford Streetka. They are pretty small and can be had for a decent price even in leather.

My daughter has a Ka (don't laugh) and the seats are ok. The rest of the car ..... well......

At least it won't get stolen by joy-riders.

Dave

Mitchelkitman

13th April 2017, 09:18

:attention:If you get some MGB seat covers with the vertical panels, it's easy to remove 1 panel...... this is an ideal width as the seat frame can then be cut and welded 2 1/2 inches (or whatever the panel width is) to get the seats just right!

deni

13th April 2017, 13:22

Mister Towed - thank you for your detailed reply, much appreciated. I thought that I've read it in your build thread. Hope you're enjoying your freedom and I hope you have made some progress with your new project.

Mitchelkitman - Thank you too. I am glad you have said that, because I was thinking the same and my covers are with vertical panels, so I will try that first.

Dave P - that is a great idea too, thank you. If my plan with MGB seats doesn't work I will check Streetka seats.

Cheers,
D

deni

16th April 2017, 21:56

Hi everyone,

Had a couple of hours on the car this week. My friend Johnny came over to help me with the gearbox removal. I wanted to inspect the condition of the clutch. So, we marked the prop shaft for later alignment, and removed it.

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We saw that the clutch was nearly new and didn't have to remove the gearbox completely, which was great news.

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Close up of the clutch

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Next job is to clean and paint the gearbox and to continue with the front suspension and the engine.

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Also, installed the swing spring and 1" lowering block. Lowering block was a tight fit and needed a bit of "persuasion" with a rubber hammer, but we managed to insert it on to the diff casing.

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deni

16th April 2017, 22:06

So, the rear end is now done.

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I have removed old diff casing studs and used two of them, shortened them to make screws and plug two unused holes.

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I have cut grooves in them

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...and screwed them in to plug unused holes

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deni

16th April 2017, 22:18

New, longer studs were used.

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All went well, but there is one thing I am not sure about so please, if anybody can advise it would be great. I have tightened the screws as tight as it was possible but I still have a small gap between the lowering block and the bottom plate (first two pictures below), even though the bottom leaf of the spring fits quite well in the gap of the lowering block (last photo).

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Mister Towed

17th April 2017, 08:48

Nice work. Just a thought, did you loctite the blanking studs in to stop them dropping into the diff casing?

The slight gap between the lowering block and bottom leaf could be to prevent the rest of the leaves in the stack from being clamped in place and allow them to move laterally. As far as I'm aware, the bottom leaf should be fixed to the diff and the rest should be able to slide from side to side -

http://www.canleyclassics.com/technical-archive/swing-springs/

Anyway, keep up the good work.

deni

17th April 2017, 10:29

Mister Towed - Thank you for your reply. I did not use Loctite, so thank you for pointing this out. I've only tightened them as much as I could with mole grips, but now you've mentioned this I think I should use Loctite, as the studs are not held with the nuts above the spring like before. So, next time I'm working on the car I will fix this.

Cheers,
D

deni

17th April 2017, 10:40

I have another question I hope someone can help me with please. I was reading in a Herald manual that the original spring has the front and the back side, and should be positioned accordingly. I've checked the old spring and I saw the markings. However, I could not see such markings on swing spring. Does a swing spring has front or back side, i.e. the side of the spring that should point towards the engine?

Cheers,
D

Paul L

17th April 2017, 10:41

Deni - Not sure if the Herald set up is the 100% the same as the Spitfire (although they are obviously very similar).

But there was a hole in my lowering block that needed to be enlarged slightly for the rear spring to locate properly.

More details in this post:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46934&postcount=530

Finally, although I did fit a lowering block initially, I eventually removed it as the rear of the car was too low. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps and good luck, Paul. :)

deni

17th April 2017, 11:03

Hi Paul,

Thank you for a quick reply. I think I will remove the spring and do it again, but this time using some Loctite (I have noticed that there are quite a few Loctite variations, with different numbers on the bottles, presumably representing a different strength?) and checking the centre hole too.

Btw, how do you make your pictures visible at all times, without logging in? (I upload my pictures directly via this forum page).

Cheers,
D

Paul L

18th April 2017, 21:06

…Btw, how do you make your pictures visible at all times, without logging in? (I upload my pictures directly via this forum page)…

Deni - I host my photos on an external website (like Photobucket) and then post the links to the photos.

When you attach a photo load on this site, the code appears like this in the post.
( I've added some spaces so that the photo itself doesn't appear. )

[ attach ] 4320 [ / attach ]

However, if I open the photo itself up in a separate tab, I get this link...

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4320&d=1492376892

To turn the link into a photo, you need to add some code to the front and back of it.
( Again, I've added spaces so the photo will not appear. )

[ i m g ] http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4320&d=1492376892 [ / i m g ]

Then if you remove the spaces you get this.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4320&d=1492376892

Now I am not 100% sure if the photo above is visible without logging in.

There may also be a quicker way of doing this, but I've not actually tried to load photos on here. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps, Paul. :)

PS
if you 'Quote' this post, you will be able to see the photo code in action.

deni

19th April 2017, 11:49

Thank you Paul, I thought it must be because you are using a host website to upload the photos. I will try to use the Photobucket website next time.

Cheers,
D

Marc F

19th April 2017, 13:41

Good luck Deni - will be interesting to see how you get on.

I am back on my build, the engine saga continues - it never ceases to amaze me how real life keeps blocking me. So I am now trying the "one day a weekend is my time" routine - I will see if that works.

Anybody going to Stoneleigh at end of April?

deni

20th April 2017, 13:06

Hi Marc,

Yes, I was wondering what happened with your build. Glad to hear you are back on it and I hope it all goes well.
I agree - "often and little" someone once said, and I will try to stick to it too.
Good luck with your build and I will keep checking your thread.

Cheers,
D

Marc F

20th April 2017, 13:11

Yes, I am still plugging away. Sadly, I have forgotten how to post pictures so I need to try and understand that process again.

But real life is a bitch - I envy those who have retired and can devote serious time to their cars. I get pulled from pillar to post on all manner of domestic matters - kids, house, family illness. And don't talk to me about where the money goes...

But I am still going, and still fermenting plans

deni

5th July 2017, 11:17

Hi everyone,

I had (finally) a couple of days to work on the car. I could not spend much time working on the car lately, but hopefully, I will have some more time in coming weeks. Didn't do much but I'm a bit further nevertheless. Here are some photos.

Gear box housing cleaned and painted.

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4475

4476

4477

deni

5th July 2017, 11:20

Frame in primer and painted.

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deni

5th July 2017, 12:06

Trial fit of the frame.

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Overall, the existing attachment points on the frame are perfectly aligned but I have noticed that the frame is not quite complete, which is a bit disappointing.
Two attachment points that should mount on the rear part of the chassis (just behind the spring) and the pedals mounting plate at the front of the frame are missing.
Also, the bar on the back bottom (lateral) that should link left and right back sides of the frame is missing - this is maybe left out in the case the frame doesn't align properly, so it is easier to make the adjustments...anyway, I need to fabricate the prop shaft tunnel and the gear box cover, so I guess it is time to learn how to weld. Actually I am looking forward to learn how to weld. A while ago I've bought an arc welder, so we shall see...

I have a few questions please:

There are two small attachment points there on the front of the frame, where the dashboard will be - I guess they are for the steering column?

Two attachments on the top back corners of the frame (just behind the seats) - are they for the seat belts or something else?

The petrol tank area is on the back of the car - I know that many of you have placed your petrol tank at this position but is it safe to put it there and would it be safer to mount it behind the seats?

The fiberglass floor panels - is it necessary to put anything in between the chassis and the floor panels, like some kind of rubber (possibly neoprene), or another kind of a sealant like silicone or a Tiger seal, or is it enough just to bolt them to the chassis?

When I bought the chassis, there was a piece of a double sided sticky tape of some kind (green stripe on the photo below). The green bit could be peeled of exposing a sticky, soft, rubbery kind of tape. Is this something that can be used in between the chassis and the floor panels maybe?

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deni

5th July 2017, 12:14

While I practice welding and think about the frame modification, I will continue with cleaning and painting the front suspension parts and some engine parts, like rocker cover.

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Thank you all for the support so far and I am looking forward to receive some further advice.

Cheers, Deni

davecymru

5th July 2017, 19:03

I have a few questions please:

There are two small attachment points there on the front of the frame, where the dashboard will be - I guess they are for the steering column?

Yup and they should be the right distance apart for the U bolt that mounts the Triumph column to the old tub. "should" being used based on experience here! I had to cut and re-weld mine, others used Garage Adjustment Device No.1 i.e. a big hammer!

Two attachments on the top back corners of the frame (just behind the seats) - are they for the seat belts ?

yup.

The petrol tank area is on the back of the car - I know that many of you have placed your petrol tank at this position but is it safe to put it there and would it be safer to mount it behind the seats?

There has been some discussion about this over the years with the various Sammio / Ribble / Migilia designs and i think the thinking the last time i remember was that it's as safe as any motorbike!

The fiberglass floor panels - is it necessary to put anything in between the chassis and the floor panels, like some kind of rubber (possibly neoprene), or another kind of a sealant like silicone or a Tiger seal, or is it enough just to bolt them to the chassis?

A nice thick bead of Tiger Seal all along the contact points does the trick, adds some sealant between the gaps (not that you'll drive it much in the rain) and also adds some strength.

When I bought the chassis, there was a piece of a double sided sticky tape of some kind (green stripe on the photo below). The green bit could be peeled of exposing a sticky, soft, rubbery kind of tape. Is this something that can be used in between the chassis and the floor panels maybe?

someone has gone a bit Blue Peter and used some double sided sticky tape with one of the sides still covered to add some padding. That'll work and stop rubbing, but if it's not the proper external stuff like they use to put number plates on with, i'd worry how long it would last and, for us, if it would trap moisture!

I hope that's some help?
Dave

deni

5th July 2017, 20:03

davecymry - thank you for your quick reply, much appreciated. Very helpful and clarifies a few things for me. I had to laugh about your Blue Peter comment. I think will use Tiger Seal too, it makes sense.
I have read your thread and your Miglia turned out great. I really like the use of aluminium and the riveting inside the cockpit. I am thinking to go the same route (hope you won't mind if I do) but don't know for sure yet. Someone mentioned that attaching a different type of metals to each other can cause corrosion/oxidation?
Did you use 3mm aluminium for the side panels? What kind of metal sheeting you have used for the bulkhead and how thick it is please?

Cheers,Deni.

P.S. I like your heater box fabrication. ;-)

lancelot link

5th July 2017, 22:54

If you are going to be doing some welding on your frame , may I suggest adding a bit of bracing for strength and rigidity in places ? ...The S*mmio frames had a slight flex on the rear when off the chassis , but the central tub area ( where you sit ! ) was far more robust than the Miglia version ...I never felt their frames were strong or complete enough ... The S*mmio version's have triangulation as well , which is very important ...I know Miglia's have been built and used with frames just as they are ..but if yours is incomplete and requires work ..you have the opportunity to improve it before it is clad ... just my opinion , obviously its not my car ...

deni

5th July 2017, 23:34

lancelot link - thanks for your reply. I would be happy if you would offer any advice on where to place the bracing in order to strengthen the frame. By the way, I am happy with any other advice too really, as this is all very new to me.

Cheers, Deni

Mister Towed

6th July 2017, 07:30

davecymry Someone mentioned that attaching a different type of metals to each other can cause corrosion/oxidation?

Hi Deni, yes, if you attach two different types of metal directly together one of them will corrode very quickly through galvanic corrosion.

That is a process where environmental moisture - rainwater, condensation, humidity etc., - acts as an electrolyte which conducts the electrical potential between the two different metals, effectively forming a crude battery. This rapidly causes one of the metals - whichever is least noble (resistant to corrosion) - to rapidly dissolve at the point of contact.

Whenever you connect different metals together you need to seal the join with a purpose made anti-corrosive jointing compound or you will get accelerated corrosion. I've listed one below but I haven't tried it and others are available.

The speed of this reaction is quite alarming, a good example being demonstrated in the U.S. show 'Mythbusters', who managed to dissolve a set of prison bars to the point of failure in about two weeks using Mexican Salsa as the electolyte.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/bonding-structural-adhesives/duralac.html

https://mythresults.com/episode26

lancelot link

6th July 2017, 08:43

DENI ...I have been trawling through photo's trying to find you some examples , but with the recent photobucket issues and Tinypic not responding this morning , I am struggling a bit ....
If you google image search ''S*mmio Spyder frames'' you can type the 'a' instead of the asterix , I'm not allowed !! ... You will find some good images ..the red oxide frame on the white bulkheaded car is a decent example , we ended up farming some framework out and it resulted in varying quality , but the early ones were the better ones , in my opinion , thats a fairly early one ....also , if you google image search ''S*mmio Chevaux frames'' , they show triangulation quite well ...again no door pockets which will always be easier to make strong ...

This is how the Formosa 120 GR frames are being done , this might help you with the door allowance , note that there are 2 bars running horizontally under the door step and they are tied together with triangulated sections ...this may be the best example for you to draw inspiration from....

http://i66.tinypic.com/2efn68j.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/73j5o5.jpg

I'd definitely put some side bracing , webbing or triangulation on the steering column mounts too ...2 little stubs like that unbraced , isn't very strong ...if the steering column was or needed to be wrenched sideways left or right for any reason , theres not much stopping those from leaning over and/or coming off ... look at the way the Formosa one is done in that picture above ...you could easily add a couple of bits to do something similar ...

If you did a 25mm box version of that , kind of , then you will have a much nicer frame ..

Oxford 13/60's S*mmio build thread is worth a look too ..his frame is rather nice ...

What you will notice on all these examples is that there is quite a lot going on compared to your current frame ......

deni

6th July 2017, 11:31

Gary - thank you for the advice. Farmosa frame looks soooooo much better designed and much stronger. I will definitely take your advice and add the bracing where you've suggested.

Cheers, Deni.

lancelot link

6th July 2017, 21:18

GLAD TO HEAR IT ...These cars are worth putting the effort into ..nicely finished examples have been making strong money recently ...and regardless of whether your intention is profit or pleasure , everyone likes to know their investment is safe or appreciating ...

deni

7th July 2017, 12:52

Gary - I agree. It is worth it to try and make the frame as safe as possible.

Cheers, Deni.

lancelot link

7th July 2017, 18:51

Paul L

9th July 2017, 09:58

deni

13th July 2017, 15:25

I'm not sure what hinges you intend to use on the car , it was originally designed to use early Mini external hinges in , uncannily , the same way the Cordite did ...but if you fancied trying to go internal , hidden hinged ...I can sell the ones I use on the Formosa ...£5 a pair including postage ...just a thought ...as you were !!

http://i63.tinypic.com/1z5t9pf.jpg

Gary - Thank you for the offer, your hinges look great. I have already bought mini hinges for the door but, and I hope this is not a silly question, can they be use to mount the bonnet? If they can, I would gladly buy them.

Cheers,
D

deni

13th July 2017, 15:38

Deni – Good luck with learning to weld.

I used a MIG welder for the first time on my build and practised on some spare box section first.

I found making changes to my box section frame easier to do than working with thin metal on my bulkhead repairs.

In the end, my ’Frankenstein Hillbilly’ internal structure had a lot of home welding in it.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xzqdngAcj0Q/VVDUsk7iy6I/AAAAAAAAPTk/abJwdu0ubkA/w960-h720-no/DSCF4542.JPG

Good luck, Paul. :)

Thank you Paul. Yes I remember reading your thread when you tried MIG welding for the first time. I will try with the stick welder first, and if I struggle I will source or buy an MIG welder and give it a go.

Cheers,
D

deni

14th July 2017, 01:17

Hi Deni, yes, if you attach two different types of metal directly together one of them will corrode very quickly through galvanic corrosion.

That is a process where environmental moisture - rainwater, condensation, humidity etc., - acts as an electrolyte which conducts the electrical potential between the two different metals, effectively forming a crude battery. This rapidly causes one of the metals - whichever is least noble (resistant to corrosion) - to rapidly dissolve at the point of contact.

Whenever you connect different metals together you need to seal the join with a purpose made anti-corrosive jointing compound or you will get accelerated corrosion. I've listed one below but I haven't tried it and others are available.

The speed of this reaction is quite alarming, a good example being demonstrated in the U.S. show 'Mythbusters', who managed to dissolve a set of prison bars to the point of failure in about two weeks using Mexican Salsa as the electolyte.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/bonding-structural-adhesives/duralac.html

https://mythresults.com/episode26

Mister Towed - just saw your reply (somehow I missed it on a previous page) and it is very helpful as usual, so thank you. A while ago I was fixing something and I attached a thin plate of aluminium on top of a stainless steel piece using silicone as a glue. The aluminium plate reacted and pitted (oxidized) so badly across the whole surface and I had to remove it.

deni

14th July 2017, 01:37

lancelot link

14th July 2017, 18:53

However, the fact is that many of you guys have used aluminium sheeting (and stainless steel) riveted and bonded to a (painted) frame, and it seems that nobody think that this is an issue ....or did I miss something?

Cheers, D

I've done that several times and am currently doing my Formosa build for Graham in a similar fashion ...it will take a very long time to corrode seriously ...no worse than using all steel or various other materials , in my opinion ...

Those hinges will work for a bonnet yes ...They will lift it up and away from the car with plenty of clearance .....The MX5 bonnet hinges are a nice hinge for that job on your Miglia too ...nice and simple ...There must be someone on the Tribute section not using theirs ? ..pm me if you need some of mine ... ......

Paul L

14th July 2017, 21:40

Deni - If it makes you feel any better, I just copied what I saw other people doing. :rolleyes:

So I have alloy extensions to my steel inter rear wheel arches.

But I do feel a bit better after reading Gary's reply. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

PS
Mr T was also a novice welder who went for arc, rather than mig, so you should be OK.

deni

18th July 2017, 13:33

Gary - thank you for the comment regarding different metals. I will PM you as I really like your hinges and your offer is more than ok...:high5:

Paul - thank you for the encouragement. I am still working on the front part of the car and then I will try to tackle welding and the frame reinforcement.

Cheers, D.

deni

18th July 2017, 13:51

Hi all,

Done a bit more on the car. Mainly cleaned and painted the front suspension bits and the calipers.

4497

4498

4499

4500

I have painted the front hubs for now but I think I will replace the front discs as they are quite coroded.

4501

deni

18th July 2017, 14:02

4502

4503

4504

So, the next job will be to clean and paint the front parts of the chassis where there are some surface corrosion spots. I will also try to clean and paint any part I can access as I have no intention of removing the engine. Also, the rocker cover and the manifold/exhaust will need a bit of scrub...

4505

Till next time.

Cheers, D

deni

15th October 2017, 13:45

Hi,

Just a quick update and let you all know that I did not give up the build, just did not have time to work on car... Anyway, the schedule will improve in next couple of weeks and I will be able to continue to work on the car (hopefully more regularly). I have managed to finish cleaning and painting the bits around the engine and cleaned and painted parts of the engine and the rocker cover. I will post the pictures in a couple of days.

So, the chassis and the sub-frame are painted and ready.

Next jobs to do (before the body goes on) are:

- replace the anti-roll bar with the thicker one
- install the petrol tank
- fabricate / install bulkhead
- install the pedals and the cylinders
- install the steering column
- wiring

Till next time.

Cheers, D.

Paul L

17th October 2017, 06:24

deni

17th October 2017, 11:12

Deni – Quite a few builds run into unexpected delays, so you are not alone.

I have always been surprized by what can be achieved by just chipping away.

As any small progress is certainly better than no progress.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the advice and yes, I agree. I will try to work more regularly on the car even though this proves to be a quite challenge sometimes. The car is not stored where I live and it is not always quick to get there if I have a couple of hours of time, especially with heavy traffic, but fingers crossed this will improve!

Cheers,D.

deni

17th October 2017, 11:45

A few photos below as promised. All the parts work fine and are in good condition. I had the engine running a while ago and it was running and sounding very smooth.
I have removed the surface rust and cleaned the parts, applied Kurust and painted the manifold, upper exhaust pipes, the rocker cover and other bits. The engine paint is very good, except around the exhaust pipes, so I have painted that as well. When the MOT time comes I will give the car a service and tune it if necessary. Also, if anything needs changing or fixing it will be done then as well.

4672

4673

4674

4675

4676

deni

17th October 2017, 11:48

Hmmmmmm......I'm not sure why the photos are not visible when I upload them as I did before....I have tried a few times now but without success. I will upload them anyway till I figure this one out.

deni

17th October 2017, 11:51

4677

4678

4679

4680

4681

deni

17th October 2017, 11:55

4682

4683

4684

4685

4686

deni

17th October 2017, 11:59

4687

4688

4689

4690

4691

deni

17th October 2017, 12:06

4692

That's it for now. I will post more photos as soon as I have made more progress. I have made a list of parts to buy, so till these arrive...

Cheers, D

davecymru

4th November 2017, 00:53

Thats all looking very smart!

deni

4th November 2017, 11:51

davecymry - thank you. This was the easy part - not being a great mechanic (yet) I compensate with cleaning and painting I guess.😊 Interesting what you've said about your front springs. Hope the new ones will be softer. Did you clean your Spitfire tank inside and if yes, how please?

I have received some parts I've ordered from Canleys earlier this week, so I have a few jobs to do on my list for Monday (and a bit of Sunday too I hope).
I have bought a reconditioned radiator as well, and I have noticed that the drain hole is facing forward unlike on the original one. Does anybody think this is a problem?

I am excited about the next stage of the build even though the winter is coming. I am looking forward to learning how to weld and to work with fiberglass. I hope the "moon buggy" stage will be reached soon. I am going to try to do as many jobs as I can before it gets too cold. However, jobs like sorting out and testing the wiring, or modifying the seats and similar can be done in the house if it is too cold to work in the garage (will have to bribe the missus though). 😉

Till next time. Cheers,D.

Paul L

5th November 2017, 07:13

… I am looking forward to learning how to weld and to work with fiberglass…

Deni – There is a great sense of satisfaction when you can use new skills on your build. :cool:

Plus, thankfully, there are a lot of people on here who know what they are doing and are happy to help.

… if it is too cold to work in the garage...

Too cold inside your garage? :rolleyes:

[Rant Mode On]

”Does it ever snow inside your garage?”

[/Tongue Firmly In Cheek]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/TT_Paul_L/DSCF7898.jpg

:icon_wink:

OK, I admit that even I don’t work on the car when there is snow outside.

However, I have cleared ice off the covers and carried on until I could no longer feel my fingers. :eek:

Good luck, Paul. :)

davecymru

5th November 2017, 09:07

:) i found the key to winter building was old fleece lined jumpers, padded coveralls and lots of little jobs i could dip in and out of. :)

When i got my petrol tank from spitfire graveyard the plan was to use some of that "swoosh it aroind inside" sealer and coating. But internally it was in such good condition i didnt need to!

lancelot link

5th November 2017, 12:55

I WORK ALL YEAR AROUND WITH THE WORKSHOP DOOR OPEN UNLESS ITS REALLY EXTREME WEATHER ...

I find once you get into something and are deep in the process you tend to forget how cold it is .....

deni

5th November 2017, 14:18

Paul L, davecymry and Lancelot - thank you for the encouragement fellas.
Paul - building The Swordfish outside without a garage will always be a reminder and inspiration. So, like davecymry said, it will be a hat, long Johns, thick fleece overalls and keep going, but I'm not sure if I will be able to keep the door open all the time - not many palm trees here up north ;-)

I will be working on the car tomorrow so i will post some pics soon.

Cheers,D

deni

15th November 2017, 19:38

Hi all,

Just a quick update. Did not do a lot but I am a bit further nevertheless. I ordered some parts earlier - some have arrived but some are not in stock-these are on back order and should arrive soon. I have ordered new bushes, U bolts and nuts for 7/8" ARB, but somehow I did not include new brackets in the order so I needed to postpone the ARB upgrade. I have ordered these and they should arrive soon. I have also bought upgraded drop links for the ARB.

4747

I have also bought a heater hose set. I have replaced the top and bottom hoses, but I think that the hoses that run from the engine to carburettors are not of great quality, so I will buy better ones and finish the job when they arrive.

4748

4752

I am waiting for a steering column to steering rack coupling to arrive, so I can mount the steering column and do some measurements in preparation for welding the plate for the pedals. I have an old bulkhead I will use as a template for a new bulkhead fabrication.
I have cut it down for easier handling.

4751

I also need to weld additional bars and reinforcements on the frame as well as the bars around the gearbox and around the prop shaft.

deni

15th November 2017, 20:07

I have removed the heater box from the bulkhead. I need to inspect it to see if it can be used. If it can be used, it will be cleaned and painted for the installation later on.

4753

I have bought a reconditioned radiator too. I have now removed the brackets from the old radiator and will clean and paint those too before fitting them to the new radiator.

4756

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I have noticed that the drain hole on the new radiator is not only on the other side (compared to the old radiator) but also larger in diameter, so I will have to order a new drain plug. I have bought a new radiator cap too. I could choose to buy 7psi or 13psi radiator cap - I have bought the 13psi one (I have a Spitfire 1500 engine). I hope that was the right choice.

4758

deni

15th November 2017, 20:12

I have trial fitted the floor panels too and it seems that they fit ok. I got a bit excited as the car suddenly looked a bit more complete....

4759

That's it for now. Till next time.

Cheers, D.

deni

17th November 2017, 16:13

Hi,

I need to order some steel box bars to complete and reinforce the frame. Just to check, is it a mild steel the frame is made of?

Thanks, D.

Paul L

17th November 2017, 17:19

Deni - I'm pretty sure that the Miglia frame work is mild steel, as that is what the Sammio ones were made of.

I know I definitely ordered mild steel box section for all the alterations I made on my build.

Keep plugging away, as it good like you are switching from the restoration phase to the car building one. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

lancelot link

17th November 2017, 18:29

Yes mild steel ...I don't know what Mike used but it should be 25x25x3mm box section ...A length is around 20-22 feet but you will be surprised how much you get through ...I think the original S*mmio frames were about 3 lengths ..
You could get away with 20x20 if you are adding to the existing structure ...if you want some brackets to use as bolt on points ...there are probably some on the existing frame , as Mike used my program at my suppliers ...arch shaped brackets about 50mm wide and some 25mm wide brackets with a hole either end ...I have a selection at the workshop ..happy to post you some ...I use the larger ones as seat belt points too..

molleur

17th November 2017, 21:45

Excellent advice on the 25 x 25 x 3mm section of mild steel.
You could get away with 2mm thickness minimum, however, the 3mm will be much easier to weld.

deni

17th November 2017, 23:42

Paul L, Gary and molleur - thank you for the confirmation and the advice on steel box section. Gary tank you for the offer to post some brackets and it would be great if you would do this. I have PM-d you about it.

Cheers, D.

deni

18th November 2017, 00:42

Hi,

I need some advice please. When I was replacing the heater hoses I've noticed the rubber in the picture below has split. Is it possible to fix/glue this or it need to be replaced?
I have looked in the Haynes manual and Internet trying to figure out the part name/function so I can order one, but no luck. It is located between the manifold and the carburetor.

4771

And it goes from here:

4772

My wild guess would be that it has something to do with a vacuum? so the rubber need to seal this point, but as I said it's just a guess...any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank you.

D

molleur

18th November 2017, 01:23

try distributor vacuum advance hose

froggyman

18th November 2017, 06:21

or vacuum advance and retard elbow.

Mister Towed

18th November 2017, 07:57

As Molleur says, it's a plastic tube that varies the ignition timing depending on the vacuum at the inlet manifold.

Throttle(s) closed = big vacuum and little ignition advance so it doesn't stall as it slows to an idle. Throttle(s) open = less vacuum and lots of ignition advance so the spark fully ignites the fuel/air mix before the firing stroke piston has travelled back down the bore at higher revs.

Cheap as anything and available from most motor factors so not worth trying to repair.

https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-37H4229M

https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-128262

https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-12B2095

deni

19th November 2017, 11:31

molleur, froggyman and Mister Towed - thank you very much for your help. Mister T thank you for the explanation, I understand the system a bit better now. Thanks for the links to order the parts too.

Mister T I hope your Speedster build is going well - did you started the build thread already? I've enjoyed your Sammio thread a lot, so I hope to read about building the Speedster too.

Cheers,D

lancelot link

7th January 2018, 16:12

Any progress mate ? did those brackets turn up ok ?

deni

9th January 2018, 15:54

Hi Gary,

Thanks for asking mate. Yeah, the progress was a bit slow last two-three months. Work is crazy busy lately and some (minor) health issues were in the way too. My build might be a bit slow due to work commitments, but I will not give up building and finishing the car, that is for sure.

I hope to resume the build in a couple of weeks. In the meantime I have been researching and reading about fibreglassing and I have bought quite a lot parts and tools/stuff for the build, so it's all there when I continue, which should be soon hopefully. I have bought some steel box to reinforce the frame, welding mask, main lights and the assembly for them, etc.

Unfortunately I did not receive the brackets, at least the last time I checked, which was just before the Christmas (the car is at different location to where I live and all the car parcels are delivered there). However, I have been told a couple of days ago that I have an envelope waiting for me, so maybe it's your parcel. I will let you know and thanks again for posting it.

Your Formosa long nose bulkheads look fantastic and I really like how the car is turning out so far. It is well built and will be great looking one too, that's for sure.

Cheers,D

lancelot link

9th January 2018, 22:08

redratbike

10th January 2018, 18:22

A friend sent me this link. :gossip:

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2018-03-03/cars/ref-17-1971-triumph-miglia-speedster/

Might be of interest to some one.

That looks good the side profile with the chromework certainly changes the look

deni

18th January 2018, 21:22

deni

18th January 2018, 21:25

That looks good the side profile with the chromework certainly changes the look

redratbike-thanks for the tip. Not sure about the chrome, but for the rest it's a very good looking car. I will be happy if I achieve a half of that quality.

deni

25th January 2018, 10:32

THANK YOU ....It was a padded envelope folded in half from memory , so sounds like they have arrived ....

Good luck progressing with the build ...they are worth the blood , sweat and tears ... I did some work on a Miglia recently , made a few changes etc. and corrected a few issues ..it was starting to look very promising when it went back ...

Hi Gary, just to confirm, the brackets have arrived, thanks again mate. I have bought steel tubing, so it is really time to start learning welding (which for some reason I keep delaying).

What kind of changes you have made on Miglia you've been working on, what do I look foor please?

I had a few hours working on car on Sunday and will post the photos over the weekend.

Cheers,D.

lancelot link

25th January 2018, 21:02

I fitted a Miglia body to a Spartan chassis and created a tubular inner frame and bulkhead similar to a Formosa one ...corrected the rear arch mis-alignment on the drivers rear they all suffer from , cut a bootlid in to it and created an inner boot , hung the doors , cutting and correcting the fit and gapping as much as possible , made dropped steel floorpans , changed the grille aperture and bonnet area as well as shortening the headrest ......

http://preview.ibb.co/fkPOMw/IMG_20170901_185951.jpg (http://ibb.co/dhxzuG)

http://preview.ibb.co/kdiEuG/20171002_160131.jpg (http://ibb.co/b8TfZG)

http://preview.ibb.co/dnKhgw/IMG_20171019_150749.jpg (http://ibb.co/mtQNgw)

http://preview.ibb.co/kvbHEG/IMG_20171012_111843.jpg (http://ibb.co/dUo8Mw)

http://preview.ibb.co/iLJuTb/20170930_163519.jpg (http://ibb.co/k1bQZG)

lancelot link

25th January 2018, 21:12

http://preview.ibb.co/cAhM8b/IMG_20171127_114916.jpg (http://ibb.co/gPL8ob)

A lot of work was done to the bonnet and shut area ...narrowed Cobra scoop fitted and bonnet pancaked and hinged from the front ...

http://preview.ibb.co/favKuG/IMG_20171127_114858.jpg (http://ibb.co/n2SA1w)

http://preview.ibb.co/iR13Mw/IMG_20171127_155748.jpg (http://ibb.co/hX0KuG)

deni

28th January 2018, 11:38

Wow, thanks for the photos Gary. This is going to be a very good looking car. I can see that the hump is much smaller than the original, which leaves more space for the boot opening. It's helpful to see how you have mounted your Formosa hinges to the bonnet lid, so I will try to do the same with the hinges you have sent me the first time. Cheers man.

deni

28th January 2018, 11:50

Hi all,

I had a few hours on the car a few days ago, so here are some photos. I didn't do as much as I planned but I am a bit further. I decided to replace the anti-roll bar and drop links, which took a bit longer than expected.

4879

I bought a 2nd hand (thicker) one from a Spitfire and bought new clamps, U bolts, nuts, bushes and drop links.

4880

The U bolts needed a bit "persuasion" to fit into existing holes on the Herald chassis.

4881

deni

28th January 2018, 12:28

The drop links I bought are the ones from Wolfe Racing. I thing that Mr. Towed also installed these.

4882

The were not very difficult to install, even for the novice like me, but I did lost a lot of time trying to adjust the bolts length on each drop link to be as even as possible. I know that the length can never be the same, but the difference in the adjustment seem to be quite big, so if anybody has experience with these, please let me know if this is adjusted ok...

Photo below shows the left one (bottom adjustable bolt) which is screwed in much further than the right one.

4883

This photo shows the right drop link. The difference in adjustment, to keep the tension right and the ARB in good position, is quite obvious and it seems to be too big?...so I am not sure if this is installed properly, but both drop link ball joints move freely when the car is on the wheels, as suggested in the installation manual.
I have expected a smaller difference in adjustment though and would feel more comfortable if the right side bolt was also a bit further in...any advice is welcome.

4884

For my next job, the dreaded welding, I have bought some 3 mm mild steel square tubing and an adapter for the grinder which will at least enable me to make straight cuts ... :-)

4885

Till next time... Cheers,D

lancelot link

28th January 2018, 14:05

The roll of a stock Miglia bonnet can fight against you a bit when you are trying to hinge it ...If you look at the picture a piece of wood has been bonded on the bonnet and under the body to enable the hinges to be mounted parallel to each other and operate in the same plane , rather than against each other ...

You can make this a bit easier by joining the two hinges together , like this but obviously wider apart ...

http://preview.ibb.co/mR9Shw/IMG_20171207_154500.jpg (http://ibb.co/eUUShw)

note also , that the hinge pivot point is back about 50mm from the opening ...this will need a bit of trial and error working out ... but it gives you a starting point ...

Hinges are a right pain to sort out sometimes but look effortless once done ...

Paul L

28th January 2018, 16:37

Marc F

29th January 2018, 08:46

I like the angle grinder cut-off attachment - couldn't quite see the make - where did you get it from - it looks just the thing I need.

And good to see progress on your build . Keep it up

Marc

Jaguartvr

30th January 2018, 09:43

I used to have the same attachment. I found it hard to set up and unstable. I ended up throwing it away.
I bought a small metal chop saw on ebay for less than £50. It takes 125mm cutting blades and works very well.

I have a few angle grinders all fitted with different discs because I use them a lot. You can get a quick release nut that you don't need any tools to remove the old discs, well worth investing in.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MILWAUKEE-FIX-TEC-Angle-Grinder-Quick-Release-Blade-Disc-Flange-Locking-Nut-Head/311650211963?epid=2254754796&hash=item488fccd87b:g:fOQAAOSwZ1BXe6eL

This one is even better but double the price

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Angle-Grinder-SDS-Clic-Quick-Change-Flange-locking-Nut-for-1603340031-/311020628170?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275

Sorry but no link for the chop off saw

Mitchelkitman

30th January 2018, 10:09

Is a thicker anti-roll bar the correct move? if the front of the car is lighter than the herald the thicker one could make the handling different ie understeer more

Marc F

30th January 2018, 10:48

Thanks for that Jag - I had never heard of the quick release clamp, so have bought one just now. I will look for a small chop saw - I have a wood saw version but that will too fast for metal cutting I imagine, but they are great tools. I won't waste my money on the angle grinder attachment, so that is some pounds saved. Thanks again.

And ARB - yes, a thicker bar will lead to understeer, but is often required if fitting the swing spring from the Mk4/1500.

Marc

froggyman

30th January 2018, 12:59

The evolution sliding mitre saw at screwfix is advertised as for wood or metal.

Jaguartvr

30th January 2018, 17:04

This is similar to mine
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-150mm-6-Mini-Metal-Abrasive-Mitre-Cut-Off-Chop-Saw-Blade-240v-SM150D/291052906115?hash=item43c41ae683:g:b0oAAOxy4dNSy-wB

deni

2nd February 2018, 13:30

deni

2nd February 2018, 13:35

Deni - I also started learning to weld by practicing some box section.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/TT_Paul_L/DSCF8088.jpg

I found it much easier to weld thicker box section metal compared to the thin metal in the old Spitfire bulkhead I repaired.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Hi Paul,
Thanks for the advice mate. Yes, I guess I will have to practice on some off-cuts first. It should be ok, I have bought 3mm thick square tubing to make the welding easier and not to burn through the metal, as I am going to use an arc welder.

deni

2nd February 2018, 13:41

I like the angle grinder cut-off attachment - couldn't quite see the make - where did you get it from - it looks just the thing I need.

And good to see progress on your build . Keep it up

Marc

Hi Marc - yes, the adapter is a cheap thing Aldi was selling when I bought the grinder. I only need to make a few cuts, so I thought this will do for now. If I intend to do more work in the future I will buy something better or a dedicated cutting tool. This does the job just fine for now ( I am just cutting a few extra pieces of steel tubing to reinforce my frame here and there).

deni

2nd February 2018, 13:48

Is a thicker anti-roll bar the correct move? if the front of the car is lighter than the herald the thicker one could make the handling different ie understeer more

Hi Mitchelkitman - thank you for the comment and that is a good point. However, I was under impression that I need to install a thicker ARB because I replaced original Herald spring with Spitfire 1500 swing spring and I have installed 1" lowering block too?

deni

2nd February 2018, 13:52

And ARB - yes, a thicker bar will lead to understeer, but is often required if fitting the swing spring from the Mk4/1500.

Marc

Marc F - thanks for the confirmation. Maybe Mitchelkitman did not know I have changed Herald spring and added lowering block earlier in the build.

Mitchelkitman

2nd February 2018, 14:01

You are correct!

deni

2nd February 2018, 19:05

You are correct!

Mitchelkitman - thank you for confirming this.

Cheers,D

deni

2nd February 2018, 19:10

Hi all,

Can anyone comment on the drop link adjustment in the pictures above please?

Cheers,D

Mister Towed

3rd February 2018, 07:45

Hi all,

Can anyone comment on the drop link adjustment in the pictures above please?

Cheers,D

Hi Deni, sorry, meant to reply to this a while back. I used standard links on my Spyder so I haven't actually tried the Wolfitt adjustable ones. The Wolfitt items do look very well engineered, but having been perfectly happy with the Triumph originals I'd guess that they'll only make a noticeable difference on an extreme, track focused car rather than a fun, road car.

If they're something you're keen to try I'd suggest you run your car on (new) standard drop links for a while, then change to the adjustable ones to see if there's any real difference - it's an easy job changing them after all (if there is such a thing as an easy job on an old Triumph...)

Some of Wolfitt's other products are well worth a look though.

deni

3rd February 2018, 11:01

Mr Towed - Thank you for your advice, much appreciated. I came to the same conclusion. It is a great product but, I'm not going to use my car on a racing track, so I'll use stock drop links.

deni

23rd December 2018, 23:14

Hi everyone,

After being away for nearly 4 months I am back in the garage to continue working on the Miglia.

I have done the body trial fit - even if it looks that the body is not very straight, once it is clamped to the frame it actually fits much better and I think I will be able to position it correctly.

5731

I have shortened back outriggers and front bar. This makes taking the body on and off the frame easier and it is easier to move the body too when experimenting with the positioning. I will bond these parts of the chassis to the body later on.

5729

5730

I have also made cuts in the floor panels to fit them on the chassis.

5728

deni

23rd December 2018, 23:47

Next it was time to decide what needs doing before the body is on. I have bought a new welder and started practicing welding to improve the frame. I have been reluctant to start welding - I have an arc welder but I was not confident that I would be able to use it properly.

My new welder is a flux core, gases MIG welder, which seemed a bit easier to use.

5732

My first attempt to put the wire in the welder...Inevitable rookie mistake...

5733

My frame came without the pedals attachment plate and the base for the prop shaft tunnel, so I will have to weld these on. I will also need to strengthen the area around the steering column, brace the area behind the seats and weld a steel tube between the rear outriggers to stiffen the back of the chassis a bit. I will post photos when I start doing this after Christmas.

First practice welds were not good at all, as I had to learn which power and wire speed settings are most suitable, though I have made a bit better welds after a few attempts.

5734

5735

deni

23rd December 2018, 23:59

The welds do not look very good, but after a good old hammer test, they appeared to be reasonably strong.
After this trial I bought some welding spray to reduce the splatter.

5737

5738

Buying a MIG welder was definitely a good decision, and as I am getting more confident with welding I am also starting to enjoy it a bit more.

I would not be able to do more serious structural welding at this stage, but I am confident that I will learn to weld good enough for this purpose. However, I need to practice a bit more.

deni

24th December 2018, 00:28

As I need to practice welding a bit more, I wanted to learn how to do fibreglassing too in the mean time. Like welding, I have never done this before and I will need to do it later on.

I bought some supplies and decided to make a copy of the original bulkhead.

5739

I have used 450g fibreglass matting and a thicker matting called Diolen, which remains more flexible after the resin has cured.

5740

I stripped and patched up an old and rusty bulkhead and gave it a go.

5741

5742

5743

deni

24th December 2018, 01:05

I painted the bulkhead to make it a bit smoother and applied a release agent to be able to peel off the copy when it is cured.

5744

I started with the top part. I was happy with my very first fibreglassing attempt.

5745

Again, not the best looking copy but it is very strong and very light.

5746

Next time I did the bottom bits and these turned out even better as I had learned from the mistakes doing the top bit. They were also a bit easier to do to be fair.
I have improved the top bit further by applying a couple more layers of CSM, so it looks much smoother. Unfortunately I forgot to make a photo of the finished product.

5747

5748

Obviously I was planning to use these, as this would mean less welding, less weight and would give a good reference for the possible position of the pedals.

However, later on my mate Johnny dropped the bomb shell... and said that it would be illegal to use fibreglass for the bulkhead and the car would not pass its MOT if I didn't use metal to make the bulkhead.

Needless to say I was a bit disappointed, as I had allowed 1 week of resin curing time for each part before peeling it off, so if this is true I have lost this time.

I have called a few MOT stations to check this, and of course they suggested to use steel, but none of them were 100% sure if fibreglass was illegal.

I would appreciate it if anybody can offer any advice regarding this as I have seen in a couple of forums that some builders used fibreglass bulkheads too and the original kit used to be supplied with a fibreglass bulkhead, so I assumed it was ok.

So much for now. I wish everyone a very happy Christmas and New Year.

Cheers, D.

Barber

24th December 2018, 07:32

Wow, well done, and very adventurous too. Having made every rookie mistake with an arc stick welder, I too have been wondering about MIG too. There is one at the communal workshop I attend, so will give it a try after Christmas. Keep up the great work.

Paul L

24th December 2018, 08:45

Deni - Good to see you back. :cool:

I'll write a proper reply to your welding & fibreglassing posts another time.

But just wanted to write a quick answer to this first.

...I would appreciate it if anybody can offer any advice regarding this...

This is no requirement for a car to have a metal bulkhead to pass an MOT.

As there are plenty of production cars with all fibreglass bodyshells (e.g. Reliant Scimitar, early Lotus Elans, etc.)

Lots of MOT stuff here:
https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/

The references to the bodyshell talk about "structural rigidity" not metal.

Which reminds me, there are a number of supercars built from Carbon Fibre which also don't have steel bulkheads.

So feel free to tell your mate to stand in the corner and think about what he said. :icon_wink:

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed

24th December 2018, 09:25

Hi Deni, your welding looks to be pretty good to me (if any pro welders disagree, please bear in mind that I'm a self-taught amateur welder myself, so I just mean it looks strong enough for our purposes), while your fibreglassing also looks like it'll do the job, just watch out for bubbles when using the cloth rather than the matting.

As for a fibreglass bulkhead being an mot fail, possibly your mate might have experience of an mot tester failing fibreglass repairs to a corroded structural bulkhead in a monocoque car, but there's nothing in the MOT Testers' manual to suggest that bulkheads need to be metal, otherwise how would fibreglass cars like Lotus Elans, Elites, Europas and Reliant Scimitars pass their MOT's?

The pertinent sections of the MOT manual for us are:

Appendix A, Section 8 - Vehicles with Separate bodies. This accepts that, where a vehicle has a separate chassis and body with supporting sub-structure, it is the integrity of the sub-structure that is critical, not the condition of the body.

Main manual, Section 6 - Body Structure and Attachments. Again, this talks about corrosion but not materials used to construct the vehicle in the first place.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/

Also, it's worth trawling round your local MOT testing stations until you find one who understands classic cars, hot rods and specials as they're far less likely to reject a car on the basis that they just don't understand it.

'My' tester, for example, drives a 70's Toyota Celica with a V6 motor grafted in and is restoring a pre-war Morris. He won't break the rules to get my cars through the test, but he will very carefully read the guidance notes and apply the rules appropriately to a non-standard vehicle.

I'd also point out that, once correctly registered (emphasis to try to avoid any accusation of using photoshopped registration documents from Rochdale GT) your car will almost certainly be MOT exempt anyway.

Having said that, it'll still need to be both safe and road-legal, and I personally will continue to MOT my classics/kits just for the peace of mind of an annual independent safety check.

Anyway, good luck with your Miglia, it looks like you have or are developing all the skills you'll need to do a fine job. :)

Sorry for repeating some of what Paul says above, I hadn't noticed that he'd posted while I had breakfast.

deni

24th December 2018, 14:39

Hi Barber, Paul L and Mister Towed,

Thank you for replying so quickly, on a such a lovely Christmas day.

Barber - Thank you for your comments. I would recommend to try using a MIG welder. It just seems easier to use compared to an Arc welder.

Paul L and Mister Towed - Thank you for your encouragement and advice too, as well as for the clarification regarding the bulkhead, very helpful.

I am still in two minds about the bulkhead. If I decide to use fibreglass one I might clad it with thin, lightweight aluminium just to be safe. Paul I enjoy reading your on the road blog and Mister Towed, I also follow your new roadster build - I hope to see more developments soon.

deni

24th December 2018, 15:03

Hi all,

I know that the regulations have changed and that already registered cars, older than 40 years are tax and MOT exempt, but I will continue to MOT my car anyway, just to stay safe (I have another classic car from 1976).

However, I am not sure what happens in our case, when we have to put the car back on the road after the build, so I have a few questions please:

1- I know that in the past people would send the papers to DVLA to change the details on V5 before having their MOT done. Is that still the case please? Can I already send the documentation to DVLA? If not, how do we go on about this currently please?

2- If a donor car is MOT free, is it still required to do your first MOT when you've finished re-body-ing a car?

Thank you.

Cheers, D.

micky1mo

24th December 2018, 19:19

Hi Deni, this have changed since the local DVLA offices have closed as every thing is now done by post!!!:peep:

To correctly register your car you'll need to fill-out form V627/1 and include receipts, photos ect.

Personally, I send the completed V627/1, the current V5 (with changes clearly marked) , receipts for the body conversion, a good photo of the car before, during and after the conversion (clearly showing the registration number), plus a photo of the chassis plate number or stamp and engine number.
I also included a new MOT certificate, this proves the car has been built to a road worthy standard, confirms the conversion is completed, confirms the chassis number, confirms the colour change and in most cases the MOT tester will change the VOSA details on his computer i.e. model, colour ect.

.IMHO I think DVLA look upon a MOT test as a form of "independent" inspection.

So it's worth sending a few quid getting an MOT test when your build is ready and before you register it.

Another thing to remember is when fill-out the V627/1 you only give basic simple understandable information and never mention "kit" or "used" or "second hand".
In my recent experience and using the info above the re-registering process takes around 2 weeks from posting the paperwork to receiving the up-dated V5.:party:

deni

25th December 2018, 00:53

micky1mo - thank you for the advice, very helpful and much appreciated.I am only a bit worried about the fact that I have bought a rolling chassis with engine only, and I don’t have any photos of the donor car before it was stripped down and no original reg plates. I have the chassis plate and correct V5.

Is this going to be a problem?

Thank you.

Cheers,D

micky1mo

25th December 2018, 10:35

DVLA are now asking for photos a lot more.

It's now common for them to ask for proof that a car exists ie, photo of the car and VIN location, when applying for a new style V5 replacing the old style blue V5.

Not having a photo of the original car displaying it's original registration number might be an issue and DVLA will probably ask for one.:icon_frown:

I would recommend doing some research on your car and you might find a photo or reference to it.:surprised:

lancelot link

25th December 2018, 12:40

Hi everyone,

After being away for nearly 4 months I am back in the garage to continue working on the Miglia.

I have done the body trial fit - even if it looks that the body is not very straight, once it is clamped to the frame it actually fits much better and I think I will be able to position it correctly.

5731

I know Chris at Tribute has just corrected the ''leftness'' of these bodies rear ends for a customer by cutting the bulkhead area on the drivers side ...its a fairly easy correction apparently , so might be worth messaging or emailing him .... When the S*mmio became a fully bodied / non flip fronted option , something happened !
Its all fixable though ...

deni

28th December 2018, 22:54

micky1mo - thank you for your advice. I am afraid I will have to research a bit more about this.

lancelot link - thank you for the tip. I will try to have a chat with Chris and check if it is within my capabilities to do what he did. I like how your Formosas look when they are finished, especially the long nose one.

Paul L

1st January 2019, 17:25

Deni – Sorry, I meant to post another reply and forgot. :rolleyes:

There is some useful stuff on welding splatter here:

http://weldinganswers.com/7-causes-of-spatter-and-how-to-eliminate-them/

Keep practising, as I was definitely better at welding by the end of my build compared to the start.

The same can be said for my ability to work with fibreglass, as that also got better as I did more of it.

Have you checked the height/shape of the top of the bulkhead so it is a match for the inside curve of the bodyshell?

As it would be easier to extend the height now and trim it back to fit as required later on.

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

1st January 2019, 18:31

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your comments. You’re right, I am getting better results with more practice.
I have not measured the top of the bulkhead yet, but the idea was (if I decide to use this bulkhead) to make a separate top part and to laminate it to this existing bulkhead copy. I thought it would be easier to finish this part of once the body is in it’s final position and bonded to the subframe.

Cheers,D.

Paul L

5th January 2019, 08:55

Deni – I saw your painting question ‘next door’, so thought you might like this.

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/tech-features/hand-painting-car-98714

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

5th January 2019, 11:59

Hi Paul L - thank you for the link. I was just curious about his experience with painting a fiberglass car using roller. Actually, reading your thread, back then when you were painting the Swordfish, was what inspired and convinced me that hand painting my car is the way to go.
So I will be reading your painting part of the thread again later on, as you have provided quite a lot of detail there, so thanks for that too.

Cheers, D

Paul L

6th January 2019, 09:19

Deni – No worries, as Jerome/Rob’s use of a roller on his build inspired me too. :cool:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

With hindsight, my top lessons learned from hand painting my car are:

Buy twice as much paint as you think you might need as a single batch.
- Due to some bad paint reactions and other problems, I ended up running out of top coat.
- Then the small extra tin I bought to finish the job was a slightly different shade of BRG.
- So I then had to buy even more paint to get the same colour all over from a single tin. :doh:

Use paint that is something like Rustoleum or the narrow boat stuff, rather than the synthetic paint I used.
- As whilst the synthetic paint went on shiny using a brush, it didn’t look as shiny when sanded back flat.

Use a proper polishing machine (see JaguarTVR’s suggestions on my build thread).
- As the problems I had with sanding back may have been made worse by using the wrong tool. :rolleyes:

Try to avoid painting during the hottest summer since the legendary heat wave of 1976. :icon_wink:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The fact you have a garage to do the painting in will be a big help and should make your life easier.

As the fact I need to cover my car with a tarpaulin is making a real mess of my paint. :icon_sad:

Overall, the fact my paintwork is less than perfect doesn’t stop my enjoyment of the car. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

8th January 2019, 01:20

Paul L - thank you very much for the advice, very helpful. Rustoleum paint sounds like a good idea. I remember you having a problem with different shades of green, so thanks for the tip regarding the paint quantities too.
You are also right when you say that, no matter how the paintwork turns out, it will not stop us enjoying driving our cars, that's for sure...:wink:

However, at the moment I am still "agonizing" as to which type and thickness of the metal I should use to fabricate the bulkhead...or do I use my fiberglass copy of the bulkhead, cover it with thin aluminium sheet to make it more fire resistant and glass it to the frame...or is that a silly idea??? :help:....any comments and advice would be appreciated.

Cheers, D

Paul L

9th January 2019, 09:27

Deni - Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about will be along in a minute.

But in the meantime here are my (limited experience) thoughts for what they are worth…

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fire resistance:

This website appears to be offering a FIA approved TVR Griffith body shell.

http://www.p9raceshop.com/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=4366

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dZ4XVI10zJfmStp9gep_IMvgEjV0sa4L9B6061oAS11u0NAdrX 6n_2xpG6VdVBqnOjMJ4lPB9EyVgtJv7xNbvcMXG7KsBGJnVyI_ rW6xvPkDQsRPu_qySw6caWbipDwBFL4VnHPTaoRbuxa2quvG3x i9wJF94vuZdBmyaEj-D_L3nkRzbSz2b005yz0AP9HTop_WBtsZzm2MUApFed4sirYLSd g5w9H1BBz0nRReoVtiLNW8UBB7dxide9ox2_AaMddXohd6HMXO ZE7z0-PUgv_GoQpv8VHerq_iFCyV-WPt1OwZoYfw9L2vi0mYaCQ2IIt4J8mzg-i0e0CO7tjJ75Uqb0fwzLaySGXmcIa7YFqrOHvQq5l_xIfS6Qm9 iVzRYHMAy6Zo4SaHyJTnmAkRVV-mR66E5mbJooyDFAJSFLTWF7ftIk7BsEbuZvFHJULfkmumYJdoO U_HIJfDkjNWMwVYSTRHFWgkDLoulnJZT1_9vienFKi3Nk77Pxz 03CJlssjIlO_hYh-pxcLEEz0ppPGFYLVUHH8ChiiF8rrptTBTMIWhR-alC9UmMFYpBZkTN8Acgltf4V-hxxZ3oDUXdKLhagOI7FzBjvium8ozFO7FCSaXEiYEiNtm71xKS 0AvgzId7-4c5rTE4wRJtxdb0fdd5w=w565-h422-no

I don't know, but assume that the FIA have fire resistance standards that this fibreglass shell meets?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fabricating the bulkhead in metal:

I had no idea what I was doing when I started repairing my rusting bulkhead. :rolleyes:

But with very limited tools and skills, I was able to make various metal Frankenstein shapes.

Brake master cylinder recess

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6pbO9JuXyog/Un6TUxmM1ZI/AAAAAAAABRA/8uM8qVV1kN8/w960-h720-no/DSCF0066.JPG

Sunken battery box

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bg7i-WuL1oA/Uu-tzNgH3RI/AAAAAAAAC1E/TOrpv45Q_Ak/w960-h720-no/DSCF1050.JPG

Plus numerous shaped repair panels to tackle the rust.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zDTTX-HYhP8/UouiDK32J0I/AAAAAAAABeI/eluiBx3ARQk/w540-h720-no/DSCF0182.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SyWFPeiK8mA/UpIs2caeu4I/AAAAAAAABlc/cT0pI3t4ueQ/w960-h720-no/DSCF0306.JPG

But my lack of experience meant that I spend months and months on the bulkhead. :icon_sad:

However, ironically, making one from scratch may take less time than repairing an existing one.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sammio Cordite:

This is a photo of DonnySoutherner's Cordite build

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj498/donnysoutherner/146.jpg

Which did use the fibreglass bulkhead that the Cordite was originally supplied with.
( I removed this section from my own build as part of 'Project HillBilly'. )

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj498/donnysoutherner/CIMG1937.jpg

The key point to note is that the framework underneath had a panel to support the pedals.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/TT_Paul_L/DSCF7520.jpg

Given my Spitfire's brakes are a mix of discs and drums, there have been time when I have really pressed the brake pedal. :eek:

So I guess ensuring the pedal area is strong enough would be a key point.

But, again, I assume the Griffith shell above is strong enough to support the pedals.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hope that helps, good luck, Paul. :)

deni

11th January 2019, 14:19

Paul L-Thank you very much for the photos and the link to the Griffith internet page. Looking forward to read it.
My frame came without pedal attachment plate but I have bought a 6mm steel plate to weld onto the frame to mount the pedals, as my bulkhead would not be strong enough.
My main concern is how fire resistant my fiberglass bulkhead would be but the photos you have posted confirm that they are suitable.

Thank you very much for your help and advice, it is much appreciated. I know I have a lot of questions but I will get there...

Cheers, D.

davecymru

12th January 2019, 18:43

Just catching up on this, in case it helps i also had to rejig my pedal plate and steering column mounts as well! So (as ever) i went a bit OTT i did a frame extension in 25x25x3mm steel box section with a 4mm steel plate on the top.

After that my bulkhead was fabricated in bonded and rivited aluminium which i got from metals4you.co.uk

I started with this

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/bulkhead1_zpsc1b106d9.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/bulkhead1_zpsc1b106d9.jpg.html)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/floors1_zpscc08ed9b.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/floors1_zpscc08ed9b.jpg.html)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/floors2_zpsf41a1c70.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/floors2_zpsf41a1c70.jpg.html)

But also ended up totally altering the steering column part so that i could fit space behind my flush mounted instruments and ended with this.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/temporary_zpsa80edd69.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/temporary_zpsa80edd69.jpg.html)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/temporary_zpsef6304d3.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/temporary_zpsef6304d3.jpg.html)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/davecymru/Miglia/out_2_zps4aa37c17.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/davecymru/media/Miglia/out_2_zps4aa37c17.jpg.html)

Hope this helps a bit?

deni

12th January 2019, 19:00

davecymry-thanks for your help, always much appreciated. Your build pages are my regular place to go when I am trying to figure things out. Good luck with the front springs tinkering...

Cheers,D

deni

12th January 2019, 19:15

Hi Dave,
I forgot to ask, Did you put anything in between aluminium and steel frame to separate them? I see on the photos that you have applied something where the rivets are.

Was that aluminium angle you've used?

Did you use aluminium or steel rivets please?

Thank you.

Cheers,Deni

davecymru

13th January 2019, 13:15

The Alloy sheets were 2000x1000x1.2mm
The angle was 3/4 x 3/4 / 1/16
Alloy rivets (LOTS of them)
and everything seated and bonded with Tiger Seal (nasty, horrible, sticky stuff that it is to cut out of your hair)

deni

14th January 2019, 22:35

...and everything seated and bonded with Tiger Seal (nasty, horrible, sticky stuff that it is to cut out of your hair)

... :-0 ... I have been warned, but I suspect I will end up with some of that nasty stuff in my hair too. Thank you for the info.

Cheers, Deni

deni

27th February 2019, 11:11

Hi all,

I've made some progress with my build and have a few more things to do this weekend, so I will post the photos afterwards. In the meantime, I have a question regarding a brake master cylinder.

I have bought a new, updated clutch cylinder with small 3/4 reservoir, but with a larger bore (0.725"). I've been told that I can use the same cylinder for my brakes.

Is the size of the reservoir crucial and will it hold enough of brake fluid for efficient braking (I would like to use this one if possible) or is it necessary to use one with a larger reservoir but a smaller, 0.625" bore?

Any advice would be helpful. My engine is 1500 Spitfire and I have a single brake circuit with discs on the front and the drums on the back wheels.

Thanks, D.

deni

27th February 2019, 21:29

For some reason my post from today (see below) did not show in 'New Posts' section, so I will post it again.

Hi all,

I've made some progress with my build and have a few more things to do this weekend, so I will post the photos afterwards. In the meantime, I have a question regarding a brake master cylinder.

I have bought a new, updated clutch cylinder with small 3/4 reservoir, but with a larger bore (0.725"). I've been told that I can use the same cylinder for my brakes.

Is the size of the reservoir crucial and will it hold enough of brake fluid for efficient braking (I would like to use this one if possible) or is it necessary to use one with a larger reservoir but a smaller, 0.625" bore?

Any advice would be helpful. My engine is 1500 Spitfire and I have a single brake circuit with discs on the front and the drums on the back wheels.

Thanks, D.

Paul L

1st March 2019, 10:09

Sorry I can't help with the technical stuff (I reused my donor stuff).

But good to hear you are still making progress. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

1st March 2019, 10:40

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your reply, hopefully someone else will chip in. Yeah, I could not work on the car for a while, so it's great to be back in the garage for the last couple of weekends. I will post the photos after this weekend.

Cheers.

Dale j

1st March 2019, 15:43

deni

1st March 2019, 19:38

Hi deni you will have to yous the stander reservoir the one that came with the car if you have a brake booster on it if not you can have a smaller one but you cannot yous a brake booster. my triumph vitesse has small reservoir, with no booster hope that helps
Dale

Hi Dale j,

Thank you for your help, much appreciated.

Just to clarify, when you say booster do you mean a servo unit that can be installed as an upgrade?

Cheers, Deni

Dale j

1st March 2019, 20:04

Hi Deni yes a servo unit ( brake booster ) you need more brake fluid for the servo to work
cheers Dale

deni

2nd March 2019, 10:48

Dale j - Thank you very much.

Mister Towed

3rd March 2019, 21:41

Erm, don't mean to contradict what's already been said, but I used one of those small reservoir/0.725 bore master cylinders on Vitesse single-circuit brakes with an aftermarket servo on my Spyder with no problems whatsoever.

The larger reservoir was used to ensure there was enough fluid to compensate for the brake pads wearing down over time, but as car enthusiasts we check our levels regularly so won't have that problem.

The servo made a big difference to the confidence I had in the brakes as you don't need to stamp on them to get the car to stop in an emergency - on my first Goodwood trip in it I came round a bend going downhill in the rain on a dual carriageway and found both lanes ahead blocked by static traffic, which was scary enough with the boosted brakes.

I'd recommend fitting a servo, 'greenstuff' pads and grippy tyres - I found Uniroyal Rainexperts to be excellent - to make sure you can stop with real confidence.

deni

4th March 2019, 10:17

Mister T,

Thank you for the clarification and an excellent advice. I thought I saw the 2 of the same cylinders on your car (and a few others), so now I know for sure that was the case.
Thank you for taking the time to reply and I hope your Outlaw build is going well.

Cheers, Deni.

Mister Towed

5th March 2019, 07:25

No problem, Deni. One more thing though - with single circuit brakes make damn sure that all the ends of the brake pipes throughout the system are properly flared and fully secure.

I had the rear main feed pipe pop out of the T piece and squirt brake fluid across my drive when I was bleeding them after installing the new m/cyl. and servo.

On stripping the system down I found that a previous owner had installed new brake pipes but hadn't properly flared half of the ends. The pedal went to the floor and I'd have had no brakes at all if it had happened on the road.

For the same reason, I'd recommend anyone buying a 'restored' classic to go through the brake lines and check the security of all the connections.

deni

5th March 2019, 14:01

Thank you Mr.T, I will make sure to check them when I bleed the brakes later in the build.

Cheers,D

deni

5th March 2019, 23:32

Hi all,

Here is an update of my build progress over the last couple of weekends. It was the time to finally tackle the welding.

I fabricated the pedal plate and welded it to the frame. I am very happy with the result and my welding is getting better all the time (sorry for the photos orientation).

I did not have any other tool to cut 6mm steel plate so I have used a grinder to make the openings for the pedals - they are not the best looking but will do the job.

5900

I have bought this cheap pillar drill quite some time ago and it finally got used to drill the holes for the pedals and the master cylinders.

5901

5902

5903

I have decided to use my fibreglass bulkhead, so I will cut out the part where the pedal plate is.

5904

deni

5th March 2019, 23:53

I welded the plate at the top and bottom side just to be sure that it's strong enough. There is quite some splatter despite using an anti-splatter spray.

5905

Again, not very pretty but it is strong and after passing over it with a grinder it looked much better.
I've welded the plate to the square tubing before welding it to the frame to avoid welding upside down.

5906

5907

5908

Then it was time to weld it to the frame. I've started first with welding on remaining square tubing that surrounds the plate.

5911

deni

6th March 2019, 00:13

Next, it was time to weld it all together.

5912

Finished product welded and primed. I will weld on a couple of bars below the plate to rest on the floor and to provide the area to bond the lower part of the fibreglass bulkhead to it.

I will also weld square bar above the pedal box onto the frame to brace it if necessary, to prevent it moving upwards when the pedals are pressed. I will first bond the fibreglass bulkhead to the frame and the floor to check if this is needed.

5913

5914

I have welded some tubing on the opposite side too, to add a lowered battery compartment....

5915

.....it looked a bit small, so I modified it and made it wider and longer, so there is enough space for the battery.

5916

deni

6th March 2019, 00:23

....again, sorry but some photos are not oriented properly...

5917

So, the idea is to cut out the pedal plate and battery compartment areas on the top part of the bulkhead, revealing the steel plate and the battery compartment beneath and then glass/bond everything together.

I will then clad the bulkhead with aluminium sheet as well.

5918

deni

6th March 2019, 00:41

I've also checked if I can use the MGB seats I bought quite some time ago now.

I know that Mr. Towed could not use his seats as the Spider frame was in the way. The Miglia frame is different, so I thought I'll give it a go and investigate if there is a chance to use these seats.

I really like the weathered look and the colour of these seats, so I have made a small cut in the corner of the bottom part of the seat frame, to allow the seats to go further back....it seems that this could work. The seats are far enough to sit comfortably and even taller person than me would be far enough from the pedals...I can raise the seats for more than 2 inches and the back of the seat will be below the hump and I will be able to look over the screen too.

I will make a final decision when I put the body back on and if I can use the seats, I will weld and paint the seat frames too ...

5919

5920

5921

5922

5923

deni

6th March 2019, 00:44

Sorry, the photo quality is not the best, but it shows the seats in the position.

5924

deni

6th March 2019, 00:53

I have also painted the bottom of the fibreglass floor panels with Hammerite stone chip shield paint to dampen the sound. Not sure if this was really necessary but we'll see...

5925

5926

I am also experimenting with the space behind the seats, to see if it is possible to make an compartment big enough to fit a spare tire. This might work too....

5927

deni

6th March 2019, 01:04

I have also started to make a battery tray. A couple of shortbread tins were cut and used to create the plug, which will be then used to create a fibreglass tray.

This will then be glassed onto the bulkhead. I have left the fibreglass to cure for a few days till I'm back in the garage next weekend, so I will post the photos of the finished tray next time.

5928

5929

5930

deni

6th March 2019, 01:27

The last thing I had time to do is to paint the frame and the chassis with another layer of paint (except for the places where I still need to do more welding).

The frame and the chassis were scratched on a multiple places due to trial fit of the body and the floor panels, so I thought it's good to do it before I glue the floor panels to the chassis and put the body on.

I will also waxoyl everything before I put the floor panels back on, as it is very easy to access the inside of the chassis now.

I have also inspected the fuel line and the brake line and they look in a very good condition, so I don't need to replace them.

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The next step is to finish welding at the back of the frame and to fabricate the prop shaft tunnel. After that, I can install the petrol tank and radiator, finish the bulkhead and the compartment behind the back seats, install the master cylinders and handbrake, followed by wiring...still some work to do till I reach a moon buggy stage, but I am another step closer.

So much for now.

Cheers, D.

Mister Towed

6th March 2019, 07:24

Great progress - love the pedal box solution.

As for the seats, if you can make them fit, the MGB seats are great.

You might want to measure the maximum distance between the outside top corners of the seat backs with the seats in place (dimension 'A') and the width of the cockpit opening where the seats will be (dimension 'B'). If 'A' is wider than 'B' they're not going to fit, I'm afraid.

The problem on a Spyder body/frame is that the chassis is in the way so you can't move them any further inboard without them being too high. Maybe the Miglia is a different matter, but the bodies look spookily similar... Good luck!

Paul L

6th March 2019, 07:28

Deni – Wow!

It looks like you have made a HUGE amount of progress. :cool:

Looking at your MGB seats, I can tell why you liked the leather ones I am selling.

I certainly agree that an ‘old’ brown colour will suit the 1950s image of the car.

It also looks like you are embracing the fact that anything done in metal or fibreglass can be changed.

So, if your first attempt (battery box frame) isn’t right, you can simply cut and re-weld it.

It might be worth testing your pedal support plate before fitting the fibreglass bulkhead.

As this would avoid any damage from the heat generated if extra welding was required.

Obviously, I know I song about melting some plastic end caps while welding box section. :rolleyes:

If it helps, I’ve found some old photos of my original Cordite framework.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/TT_Paul_L/DSCF6974.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/TT_Paul_L/DSCF7377.jpg

Similarly, I would double check you could remove a spare wheel with the seats in place.

As, After fitting my seat belt mounting points, I realised I had entombed my petrol tank forever. :doh:

Finally, the main reason to treat the underside of your fibreglass floor panels is simple…

It creates a good first impression at the MOT station when the car goes up on the ramps. :icon_wink:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/foLXO2_4EjCBT8M_VmyIF7XdeuPteQMpmaVyp4m4Z_XJkl42iE WHpNRoEoXkO09xzdTpIHUIZWdD8G-VCtZgrO104JHdvIVJohkoMRKzuoBZg7DtS9vgH3F5HePtcHRY5 nRWB3bDVDYH3nA9UfbKiD-T4UG_HQUWFblfc9416BrsiB-Ki7MO1MyWxgZVKWU-LvtN6SiwpYo-HIfjCEsbeeusfi4hfENhP0nLRE9AJTT-Jiv_JxXdnrMldyBznLRPfTDPjYlkZ05Owooyewlcp0gkny6wwk 8UsNpr8DvGJcqSmuRMYHmamG97T-u_k6ILzHRVNupFErowHPBFa2yACDV-E7bW1bU5vOL_kBLoPsvD0tS2e9pbkyjSJE-1KI4nVTvY1UZWuJVOnZ5_kia7dG56nJC1i0Pr3bDWhH2Ot1ZBo 2UnR36rCEl6qMLjQRqzFNVt77zPizJKJSd8vN1jPqLZ8P8aZuU nKi6Akdld1wywtGYeZGXtp84xMekEdeOIQ99BbPoquE50pynrr XtQhfgbh-JVi20RtxNwUp3Gz-jy0rkuRDsxpfYqGR5YI54EuA2zCDCmPLvTb2rBPWO9Hwl50QaL m65L9tvngnK9_UQMLkfeeQ=w1154-h865-no

Good luck, Paul. :)

Paul L

6th March 2019, 07:29

D'OH!

Just realised Mr T had replied about the spare wheel already.

Mitchelkitman

6th March 2019, 09:52

I will also waxoyl everything before I put the floor panels back on, as it is very easy to access the inside of the chassis now.

I don't know how accurate the info is, but I saw a report that Waxoyl will eat into and damage GRP - so maybe care has to be taken on the chassis/body interface that no waxoyl gets on the GRP.

deni

8th March 2019, 13:31

Mister Towed - thank you for your comments. I have bought a couple of 2nd hand seat base assemblies, and, as an experiment, I have already made one of them narrower, just to see how much closer I can position the seats towards the middle. I might need to make some additional "brave grinder cuts" in the corners of the body. I will trial fit the body with the seats in this weekend and will post an update later on. I would really like to use these seats, so I will try and do my best to fit them :thumb:

Paul L - thank you too for your comments and suggestions. I did not think about the MOT, but you're right, it is important to leave a good impression.
Also, some of my friends were asking why am I painting the parts that won't be visible, like gearbox bell housing or diff, etc., and they would say "no one would see or know", but the point is that I would know. :wink:
Thank you for posting your photos as well. I was thinking that if I have to add the brace after fibreglassing to use bonding paste instead of welding, to avoid melting the fibreglass. I will weld the tubing below the plate and the battery compartment though before fibreglassing.

Mitchelkitman - Wow! I didn't know that, so thanks for the heads up. I will try to find more information about it. I will make sure that when I apply Waxoyl to avoid contact with fibreglass.

Mister Towed

9th March 2019, 08:00

Just dug out the pictures of the MGB GT seats I tried in my Spyder (hope they appear, photobucket are being a bit of a pain, these days...) -

Fitted quite snugly into the chassis once the floors were lowered enough to avoid the 'Noddy' driving position -

https://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/010-1.jpg (https://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/010-1.jpg.html)

Very comfortable and a nice, laid back driving position -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/012-1.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/012-1.jpg.html)

But, once the frame went on -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/013.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/013.jpg.html)

The upper frame box-section tube is only about 2mm outboard of the inner cockpit edge and the Miglia and Spyder bodies are virtually identical (in case you don't know, the Miglia prototype was just a Spyder modified by Gary J's ex assistant) so you might well face the same issue. It would've taken major seat frame surgery to the tune of about three inches narrower to get them to sit right (no pun intended), but they'll be very comfortable if you can use them.

Good luck getting them to fit.

deni

9th March 2019, 11:50

Mr.Towed - thank you for the photos, much appreciated. I remember seeing those when I was reading your thread.

The seats in my photos are with the frame fitted, so the frame is not in the way.
I have tried a few things with the seat base. I have narrowed a 2nd hand Ford Focus seat base for 6cm and it looks like I will be able to move the seats towards the middle. However, I suspect the body might still be in the way. I could not trial fit the body this weekend to know for sure, but when I do I'll post some photos.

Cheers, Deni

deni

9th March 2019, 11:54

I don't know how accurate the info is, but I saw a report that Waxoyl will eat into and damage GRP - so maybe care has to be taken on the chassis/body interface that no waxoyl gets on the GRP.

Hi,

Does anybody know a bit more about this please?

Thank you. Deni.

lancelot link

9th March 2019, 13:35

The Miglia frame is simpler than the original S*mmio one , a little too simple in my opinion . Mike was an ok laminator but he isn't a fabricator and , I felt , the frame in the Miglia demonstrated this quite well ..its a bit lacking in strength in my opinion ...but this factor probably means it accommodates seats better .... I would take the opportunity to brace the frame with some triangulation whilst you are building the car ...

deni

10th March 2019, 00:29

Hi Gary,

Thank you for the advice. Do you mean to add the triangulation at the area below the doors, from back to front?
I am going to add the centre section along the prop shaft, from front to back for sure and strengthen the area for the steering wheel column.

Thank you.

Mister Towed

10th March 2019, 07:30

This might help -

https://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/006-3.jpg (https://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/006-3.jpg.html)

deni

10th March 2019, 10:58

Thank you Mr T. I am planning to use the doors supplied with the body though, so I won't be able to replicate the Spider's frame, but I will have to try to improve my frame at certain places.

We discussed the frame previously in the thread but it was related mainly to the steering wheel column mounting reinforcement.

Not sure where exactly Gary suggests to add the triangulation, as the Formosa's frame is quite different from Miglia's. Only way I could do this is to modify the doors by reducing their height I guess , if that is the area he refers to?

.

Cheers, D

davecymru

11th March 2019, 14:37

That is coming along very nicely matey! can't wait to see the moon-buggy stage as that is always a huge milestone :)

In case it's of any help as far as frame strengthening is concerned, i added a reinforced the central tunnel area on my frame made from steel box as i'd originally had flex from my handbrake area on the Sammio until i re-enforced it, so i thought I'd address that straight out of the blocks this tine.

Then rather than adding to the side frames with triangulated steel (as i wanted working doors as well!) i decided to do the rest of the strengthening with the alloy panelling and it's supporting alloy framework.

With my old v.hard front suspension i've very little body flex or creaking so far, so i'm happy with how it turned out.

deni

14th March 2019, 16:31

davecymry - thank you very much for your comments and the advice mate, very helpful.

I can't wait to reach moon-buggy stage but I'm getting there (slowly :smile:). I am a bit slow as I can't work on the car regularly, but mainly due to the lack of experience, and sometimes have to research a lot and re-think some ideas to not make silly mistakes. This slows me down and for that reason I appreciate all comments and advice. I am pleased how it is all turning out and thank you and all the other people that are helping with invaluable advice.

I was thinking about the frame reinforcement for the last few days and came to the conclusion that if I want to keep the doors, I will not be able to do much in that area.
This only leaves me with a few possibilities, and adding a prop shaft tunnel is definitely the most important one, so I will do that for sure.

I was thinking to reinforce the areas in front and behind the doors on each side, but I would not like the frame to become too heavy - now you have mentioned that the internal paneling adds quite a fair bit to the overall stiffness and the strength, which makes sense, I will first add the middle section and then see if I need to add any further reinforcements in other areas.

Cheers, Deni.

deni

14th March 2019, 17:01

Hi all,

More progress, so here are some photos. When I had a trial fitted the seats, I have noticed that I have to raise them quite a bit to be able to see above the screen. I decided to do an experiment and I have bought two 2nd hand adjustable seat bases with the sliders, which can also be height adjusted. They can also be electrically adjusted apparently, but I am not bothered with that to be honest. I just want to make sure that I can pass the M.O.T and to be able to see above the screen.

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I have removed two back mounting plates, as they were pointing in (for my purpose) wrong direction and would not allow the seat to fit in the floor pan.

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...no way back now...:lol:

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I have narrowed the seat for 6 cm and just tacked them for now.

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They fit very nicely now. There are plenty of possibilities to use my MGB back part of the seat and attach it to this base. I will use the original foam and the vinyl from the MGB seat to cover this new seat base.

I could not trial fit the body this weekend to further check the clearance on top, but I can now move the seats more towards the centre, and if I have to cut into the body to make it all fit, then so be it...:smile:

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I will post further update on seats when I trial fit the body.

deni

14th March 2019, 17:13

As I could not trial fit the body this time, I have continued with welding the additional bits on the frame.

I have added the reinforcement to minimize the movement of the pedals plate and done the same on opposite side.

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The frame was delivered without the mounting points to the back of the chassis, so I've added those too. This will make everything a bit stiffer and help carrying the weight of the petrol tank when filled with the fuel.

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I will weld it all to the frame later on, as I would like to take the frame of the chassis to be able to turn it upside down to make it easier to weld the bottom side of all added bits.

deni

14th March 2019, 17:29

I have also prepared the back plate for the pedals. This will be welded below the pedal plate as the bottom part of the bulkhead will be a bit further away than the original, as the square tubing is surrounding the plate. I will attach the back of the pedals to the bulkhead too using some tube spacers.

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My lowered battery tray has cured now and I have peeled it of the mold. This is now ready to be inserted into the top part of the bulkhead and glassed in when I am ready to do final bonding of the fiberglass bulkhead to the steel frame.

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So much for now.

Cheers,D.

Paul L

17th March 2019, 07:55

… The frame was delivered without the mounting points to the back of the chassis, so I've added those too. This will make everything a bit stiffer…

Deni – That is definitely a good call, as there were rear “feet” on the original Cordite framework.
( Although I had to shorten mine to accommodate the Spitfire rear arches I used. )

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U2Jz2xPWWP0/VS6RUQr8tZI/AAAAAAAAOgQ/grbkmbGh9-Q/w960-h720-no/DSCF4530.JPG

Also, it looks like you have reached the ‘fearless’ stage of cutting and welding now. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

17th March 2019, 22:27

Paul L - :biggrin: yes Paul, it looks I am in the 'fearless' stage as I am getting more confident in my abilities. I just have to make sure that I don't progress too far, i.e. the 'reckless' stage :lol:

Thank you for your encouragements.

Cheers, Deni

deni

25th March 2019, 14:58

Hi all,

Just a quick update. I have had a chance to trial fit the body this weekend. I am very pleased that I will be able to use my MGB seats. Narrowing the seat base worked out and the upright part of the seats fits without need to cut the body. I will tweak this further when I bond the body onto the frame, but it is good to know that I can now commit to these seats.

The angle of the upright part of the seat is adjustable and it can be folded too. The seat base is fully adjustable too (height and back/forward) and pictures show the base of the seats at it's highest position, so there will be enough space for head rest cushions too. :peace:

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deni

25th March 2019, 15:44

Looking at the photos it seems that I did not do much last weekend, but I did lot of measurements, drawings and head and chin scratching to decide (figure out :wink:) what to do next and how, which also need to happen I suppose....I have made a mock up of the compartment behind the seats. I will make a wood template and make a fiberglass copy of it. Still need to finish the mock up, as I keep changing it to maximise the space. I would like to fit a spare tyre in it and a small bag of tools/things, jack etc.

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I am trying to extend the box to go over the swing spring. I will make sure I make access to the spring to diff mounting area if it is necessary to access it in the future.

5975

I will also make it a bit longer at the bottom. When I've trial fitted the seats I noticed that there is available space behind the seats, even if they would be in their position furthest at the back, so the back bulkhead can also be angled rather than straight, which might look good actually...to be continued...

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I have also traced the line of the body curvature at the back of the bonnet area to make a template for the upper part of the bulkhead. This will also be made in fiberglass, glassed together with the rest of the bulkhead and bonded to the body later.

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deni

25th March 2019, 16:00

I have trial fitted the bulkhead too, just to confirm it will fit. The template I am making is to bridge the gap in between the bulkhead and the body.

5978

So much for now.

Cheers, D.

Mister Towed

26th March 2019, 07:23

Great that you can use your MGB seats, they are very comfortable.

Leave yourself plenty of space around the rear spring as it's a bugger of a job to remove it if you need to (make sure you loctite the studs into the diff and use new locknuts as there's a tendency for the studs to come loose if you don't).

I found the space behind the seats very useful for 'hand luggage', a towel to wipe your face when it rains, a bottle of water etc. A sealed in, sloping bulkhead might look cool but the space is too useful to lose imho.

Keep up the good work!

deni

26th March 2019, 15:47

Thank you Mr.Towed. Yes, I am really chuffed I can use these comfy and, in my opinion, good looking seats.

The panel on top of the swing spring will be removable, if I decide to make the box so deep. I will make sure I put some loctite on the studs, thanks for the tip.

The angle where the back bulkhead will be looks greater on the photo than it really is, so even with the slope I will still have some space behind the seats.

I will try to make it like this, just to see how it fits/looks, and if it does not work out I'll trim it back.

deni

3rd September 2019, 11:56

Hi all,

Finally I can continue with the build… I have made more modifications on the frame, so I think the front side is done now. I will only add another L shaped brace in the middle of the top bulkhead rail to connect it to the bottom rail (marked with masking tape).

It's all just positioned on the frame at the moment and I just need to finish welding it to the frame. I did not have time to do it this weekend, after measuring and fabricating the parts - I have to do it slowly and generate as little heat as possible, as I have filled the frame with the wax to protect it from the rust at the very beginning of the build...:icon_biggrin:

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deni

3rd September 2019, 12:13

I am happy with the frame modifications at the front, so I can continue with placing fibreglass bulkhead parts. After all the welding is done I will glass/bond it all together to make a strong structure and clad it all with aluminium sheet to finish it off. Photos show mocked up bulkhead.

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There is a lot of space behind the bulkhead to make a decent size storage box too…

6355

deni

3rd September 2019, 12:35

I am planning to use original engine side panels to mount the radiator. I've temporarily placed old radiator to the panels using cable ties to check how it all fits. The top of the panels will stick out, so I have marked the area that could be trimmed to fit under the bonnet.

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I hope that the radiator is positioned high enough, using mounting points (holes for the bolts) below the top ones that will be removed :eusa_think: (I think these are original mounting points). It will sit a bit higher when it's connected to the top hose, but it seems that the fan sticks out a bit, just above the top of the radiator. Hope that this is ok…any advice is welcome.

deni

3rd September 2019, 13:00

Another thing I'd like to check - my clutch slave cylinder is fitted with a plastic pipe instead of copper one, so the connector attached to the slave cylinder does not have a nut/bolt thread.

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I am planning to use a new flexible hose in between master and slave cylinder copper pipes using a rubber break hose.

Am I right in thinking that I can remove (unscrew) the plastic pipe connector from the slave cylinder and screw a new (short) flared copper pipe with the fitting directly into the slave cylinder?

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So much for now.

Cheers, D.

Paul L

11th September 2019, 14:52

Deni - Sorry I can't help much with your technical questions.

But it is nice to see you still chipping away.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed

11th September 2019, 21:11

Hi Deni, that clutch hose looks very much like one from an MG Midget -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-Midget-1500-Plastic-Clutch-Hose-Pipe-1974-78-Only-READ-MY-DESCRIPTION/191385147350?hash=item2c8f7197d6:g:SAMAAOxymxFRnXE I

You can either just use a new Midget one or replace the whole thing, connectors and all, with a copper/kunifer one for a Spitfire/Herald, and both solutions are likely to be more reliable than trying to adapt a brake hose.

deni

13th September 2019, 10:08

Paul L - Yes bud I am still chipping away :eusa_angel:, thanks for your comment. I am not always able to work on the car, but I will finish it!

Mister Towed - Thank you very much for your advice. I was looking to buy a Spit/Herald copper pipe set, but I did not find any containing a flexi hose (which I believe have to be implemented due to gearbox vibrations), so I thought I can use a brake flexi hose in between the copper pipes.

Dale j

13th September 2019, 10:26

Hi Deni if you need a flexi hose lookup pirtek uk they will tell you the local depot to you they will make you one up just take fitting sizes up or the old fitting and give the length of the hose keep up the good work

deni

13th September 2019, 20:07

Dale J - Thanks for the info, I will check it out. I hope you have made more progress with your car - your engine bay panelling looks very impressive.

Cheers, Deni

deni

25th September 2019, 16:57

Hi all,

I have bought a pair of front GAZ ride/height adjustable shock absorbers and I am seeking a bit of advice/opinion on the springs rating and their unfitted length most suitable for me to buy.

I know that Mister Towed opted for 180lb and 11 inch unfitted length springs for his Spider, with 6 cylinder engine.

I also know that Dave Cymry at the end opted for 200lb, 9 inch unfitted length springs for his Miglia, also with 6 cylinder engine.

From Dave's pictures it seems that the ride height was easy to adjust, but I would like to check if I have understood the adjustment description. I was reading that it started with the shock height adjuster 2 inches from the lowest setting and by raising the shock adjuster further up (and compressing the spring more?) the front end was raised - is that correct please?

My car is fitted with 4 cylinder Spitfire 1500 engine, so it's a bit lighter and I have to lower the front end of the car probably 2-3 inches.

I have a feeling that 180lb rating would be ok for my car, but I am not sure about the most suitable unfitted length to be able to lower the car sufficiently.

I apologise if I sound a bit confused, but I am a little… :wink:….any advice is helpful and welcome.

Thank you.

Cheers, Deni.

Mister Towed

26th September 2019, 10:50

Hi Deni.

You're right about height adjustment on the GAZ shocks - wind the adjustable spring-seat down the shock to lower the ride height and wind it up the shock to raise it.

As for spring rate, that really depends on how you want the car to behave and where you're going to drive it. 330lb. springs work great on a race circuit, but would throw you into the nearest ditch on the fen roads of East Anglia where I drive. As your car is likely to be 2-300kg's lighter than the donor, standard 180lb springs should give you a firm but still compliant ride.

The free length isn't too critical as you have about 5" of adjustment on the Gaz shocks, with a light car I'd say the shorter the better. Just don't go so short that the spring is free to move up and down between the top and bottom seats at full extension. They don't need to be under much compression, they just shouldn't be able to move. I'd measure the distance between the inner faces of the top and bottom spring seats at full extension and add 1" as a minimum spring length (I hope that makes sense).

One final thing worth mentioning, you might find that the inside diameter of the spring is narrower than the raised portion of the lower spring seat that it's supposed to slide over to locate it laterally.

I had to grind about a mm all round from the spring seat to get the (standard Spitfire) springs to fit and I don't think I'm the only one who's had that issue with them.

Ultimately, suspension and wheel alignment/geometry on these cars is very much down to owner preference and trial and error testing.

Good luck!

deni

26th September 2019, 11:54

Thank you so much for your advice Mr.T. You're spot in regard to my uncertainty about compressing the spring too much if it is too long, so your clarification is much appreciated.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the lower spring seat too!

I know that achieving a good suspension set up (in our case) is not an exact science, but your advice helps a lot, so ta mucho.:hail:

deni

29th August 2020, 18:39

Hi peeps,

Finally had some time and opportunity to work on the car....

I have experimented with modification of the seats in order to get the height of the back rest right. The base of the seats is a bit wide, so if I raise the seats the backrest sticks out too much. However, by raising the seats I am gaining more space to move the seats left and right and I can position them more towards the centre of the hump. This is just a mock up before I decide to cut the original frame.

This is a work in progress and I will continue experimenting with this as I really want to end up using these seats.

7025

This is approximately what I'm aiming to achieve.

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I've used a Ford Focus backrest and chopped it to see how it could look when it's done.

7024

However, to not lose a lot of time with this at this stage, I bought a pair of Spitfire MK4 seats which I will use in the meantime. They have a much narrower base and are easy to position. I will clean and recondition the leather, so they will look nice when it's done.

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deni

29th August 2020, 18:48

I have also fabricated a two-piece centre section to further improve the frame. I will probably weld the back to the frame and leave the front piece removable for easier access to the gearbox if necessary.

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deni

29th August 2020, 18:56

Having the seats at the right height and position helps with positioning the steering wheel. I have mocked up the mounting for it for now and will weld the proper mounting and bracing next time I work on the car.

I also need to make a subframe for the seats, as I need to raise them for 7 cm.

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deni

29th August 2020, 19:18

I will also modify the steering column. I have bought a 40cm steering shaft and UJ from CBS and another, bit shorter UJ from Canleys, to attach the column to the steering rack. This is needed as the steering column needs to be extended more than it is possible with the original setting, and because the angle of the steering wheel is different from the original.

7039

I was also trying to figure out where and how to install the seat belts. I think the approach in the second photo is better, but instead of mounting the third point using the frame-to-chassis bolt, I will weld a mounting point onto the frame just above it.

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As I have mentioned before, I bought a pair of GAZ adjustable shocks a while ago. When all the above is done, I will (try to) tackle the front suspension.
I will use 14" steel wheels with 175/65 tyres. I reckon I will need to lower the car for about 2 inches.

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So much for now, I'll post more photos when I progress further.

Cheers, D.

1iTim

30th August 2020, 01:22

Nice work and good progress. I remember trying to get the steering position 'just right' - and in the end gave up and it is where it is!

Good luck!

T

Mister Towed

30th August 2020, 10:36

deni

30th August 2020, 11:22

1iTim- Thank you for letting me know so I don't get too frustrated about it :smile: I am looking forward to seeing how you are going to bond the body to the frame, so good luck with it. I also enjoy your YouTube videos, nice to see more Miglias being made!

deni

30th August 2020, 11:35

I'd stick with the narrow seats or similar and mount them as low as possible rather than going for the bigger bases.

The reason is you'll end up with your head and upper body sticking up into the air flow above the wind deflector if you have the wide ones high enough to clear the chassis rails. That's not only bad for the aerodynamics, but it's also very uncomfortable and you'll look like Noddy tootling through Toytown.

Ideally, when seated you need your shoulders to be level with or no more than a couple of inches above the cockpit edge.

Ultimately it's your choice and it's nice to see your build progressing.

Hahahaha, thanks for your advice Mr T. I will certainly try to avoid looking like Noddy! :smile: I am not very tall though, and I will make sure my shoulders do not stick out above the cockpit too much. I just want to make sure I can see above the screen and make the MOT guys happy (possibly with the help of a cushion :wink: )

Cheers, D.

1iTim

31st August 2020, 00:06

I just want to make sure I can see above the screen and make the MOT guys happy ....

cusion, or a saw (for the screen, not you!)
T

deni

31st August 2020, 11:34

1iTim - :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:...that's right, one or another.

Cheers, D.

deni

25th December 2020, 11:15

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

deni

7th July 2021, 18:16

Hi all,

I am finally able to continue with my build and I hope to make some good progress in the next few weekends.
I have started to finalise the steering column installation, and I am still working on it, but here are some photos of the mock up that show what I am trying to achieve.

I have already improved the mounting and bracing of the column bracket and I will post more photos of the finished product shortly.

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7353

7354

I have also refurbished and repainted all parts and shortened inner column shaft, so I can use UJ's to extend the column and to avoid welding it. Also, this way I'm more flexible with the positioning of the steering wheel.

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7356

deni

7th July 2021, 18:21

Below are the photos showing shortening of the inner column shaft and grinding off the column surface to be able to lock it in place with the locking bracket.

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7358

7359

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7361

That's it for now. It's good to be back...I will post more photos soon.

Cheers, D.

Paul L

9th July 2021, 16:46

Deni - Good to see you are back on your car. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

10th July 2021, 00:03

Thanks Paul, it’s been a while since I was able to work on the car, but I’m finally able to get back to it, which is great.
I am glad to read that you’re planning to get back on the road and enjoy driving the Swoordfish again.
I hope weight lifting is going well (great idea btw), and you’re on track with loosing another stone before the end of the summer...I’m pretty certain you’re more successful with that than I am 😉.

Cheers, D.

deni

15th October 2021, 14:34

Hi all,

A quick update. I have re-addressed my steering column attachment. I thought it could be a bit stronger than the previous one.

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7409

This is how it looks now it's finished. It is not the most elegant solution, but it is quite strong and sturdy.

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I have drilled 4 holes, so I can choose between 2 lateral positions (if necessary).

7411

...and raise it up a bit if necessary.

7412

deni

15th October 2021, 14:41

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7414

7415

It took me a while to figure out and decide how to do this and I'm happy with the result. It is strong and sturdy, as I said before, and it is easy to remove the column and the whole assembly if necessary.

deni

15th October 2021, 14:56

I have also fabricated a back plate to bolt the back side of the brake and clutch pedals on, and to mount the accelerator pedal.

7416

I've also added a stop plate for the accelerator pedal and to have a solid base to drill a hole and attach the accelerator cable too (as I'm not sure if the bulkhead cladding will be at the right height).

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7418

7419

deni

15th October 2021, 15:10

I have added a self-aligning bearing too, to add extra support to the upper steering column.

7420

7421

I'm not sure if it is necessary, but I am thinking of adding another self-aligning bearing further down (which would be mounted on the steel bars welded onto the chassis), to add extra support to the lower steering shaft. Any comments and advice are welcome.

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7423

deni

15th October 2021, 15:51

I don't know if the previous owner has ever changed the brake pipes, and if so, I don't know when. Even though the brake and the fuel pipes look to be in good condition, I have decided to replace them. I've decided to use Cupro-Nickel (Kunifer) pipes instead of copper ones. I bought a pre-made set and they look and feel strong, yet easy to bend and install.

7424

I have never done this before (like most things I have done so far in this build) and I was curious if I will be able to do this. It's going well so far I think. As you can see from the photos below, I have managed to change the back brake pipes.

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7426

I found a bit of surface corrosion below the front brake splitter (where the brake fluid was dripping I guess), so I will first clean, apply rust treatment and paint this area before replacing the front pipes. I guess I could replace the line splitters too while I am at it, but I am not sure if that is necessary. Again, any advice is welcome.

It was already getting dark by the time I wanted to do this, so I will finish the job next time I am in the garage.

7427

I will also replace the rubber brake hoses when they arrive. They are not in the stock at the moment and are on back order with Rimmers.

So much for now.

Cheers, Deni.

P.S. I am not sure what is the build progress of other Miglia builders - I am curious how the other builders are progressing and how far on they are. Come on peeps, let us know how it's going ;-)

Paul L

23rd October 2021, 10:41

Deni - Sorry, I can't offer much in the way of technical advice about the steering or brakes. :rolleyes:

But I hope I can offer some general encouragement in that you are making good progress. :cool:

Like yourself, I often wonder what happened to other Miglia/Sammio builds.

Unfortunately, I think many builders get overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the task.

It took a lot to keep convincing myself that every job I did, no matter how small, was a step closer to the finish line.
(Which is why I found keeping a build thread such a big help for motivation.)

I think all of us have found this takes longer than we thought/planned/hoped.
(Especially when 'life' gets in the way.)

However, I stick by my theory that as long as you finish, it doesn't matter how long it took.

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

26th October 2021, 12:22

Thank you for your comments Paul.
Yes, life gets in the way very often, and my build is very slow for various reasons, but I have decided not to worry about it too much anymore - I'm doing as much as I can and when I can.
I do not have any previous experience either. Some jobs that are easy for others are a challenge for me, so I need to do a lot of research, but I'm getting there slowly and I enjoy learning how to do them.
This forum is great and the members are very helpful, friendly and understanding (even if I ask a silly question possibly), so thanks everyone for your help and advice so far - if it wasn't for this forum I would probably not dare to start this build.
Also, my garage is an hour drive from my home, so I can't just pop in and do a couple of hours to keep things moving. I couldn't go there during the lockdown either, which was very frustrating.
Nevertheless, I am grateful that I have a garage at all and I am determined to finish the car one day.

Cheers, D.

deni

5th December 2021, 15:51

Hi all,

Just a quick update. I was waiting for nearly 4 weeks to receive the flexi brake hoses which were on back order at Rimmers. They have now arrived and I have installed them together with new cupronickel brake pipes.

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In the meantime I have done a few jobs. The chassis paint I used previously was not the best one in my opinion, so I have repainted the chassis and the frame with Hammerite.
I know that I won't drive this car much in the rain, but now I have good access, I have wax-oiled the cavities and exposed bits of the chassis before the floor panels are glued and fixed to the chassis.

I have also bought a new 1/4" cupronickel petrol pipe to replace the old one, which is the next job.

deni

5th December 2021, 16:09

Also, I need a bit of advice from you guys please.

I am toying with the idea to install the petrol tank behind the seats, instead of behind the rear axle where it is meant to go now.

The reasons for it are:

1 - I assume that placing the tank in front of the rear axle (between the axles) the weight distribution would be better?

2 - I'm not sure if this is very important - as the petrol tank does not have any baffles inside, the petrol movement inside tank while driving would be less drastic at this position?

3 - Access and maintenance in the future would be better.

4 - I do not have enough space to put the spare wheel in the compartment behind the seats. In that case, I could maybe make a little boot and a compartment in there for the spare wheel.

That's it for now.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Cheers, D.

Mister Towed

6th December 2021, 10:48

deni

6th December 2021, 10:54

Thank you Mister Towed, much appreciated.

Mitchelkitman

6th December 2021, 22:23

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight distribution, it's going to be pretty front heavy no matter where you put your tank!

From a safety perspective, behind the seats would put the tank closer to the occupants, which is a bit disconcerting, but it would then be further away from the risk of intrusion damage in a rear-end shunt which is a good thing.

Your choice, really :)
I believe avoiding locating the fuel tank near to the rear is standard in modern cars for the very reason of rear damage. When I had a GTM (fuel tank in front between front 'axle' and bulkhead), a friend said they'd not like a tank in that position..... I responded "at least with it in front I may have some control in whether it collides with anything". They agreed that was a valid point :icon_eek:

deni

7th December 2021, 00:47

Mitchelkitman thank you too for your advice. That makes sense, we can't totally control if someone will hit the car from behind.

Mister Towed

7th December 2021, 08:31

When I joined up we had (Military spec.) Series 2 Land Rovers, which had the fuel tank and filler cap under the passenger seat. We used to joke that Land Rover put it there to make sure they never had to pay any personal injury claims, just funerals which would work out cheaper in the long run.

You had to lift the seat base up to fill the tank and they always stunk of fuel inside due to the inevitable spillages.

The diesel ones were the worst as the smell never dissipated and the front footwells were like an ice-rink due to a generous coating of fuel-oil, which would instantly transfer itself onto the soles of your boots when you climbed aboard.

That meant that the passenger couldn't brace their feet against the bulkhead in corners (see below) while the driver's feet would regularly slip off the highly polished bare metal clutch and brake pedals.

This would leave you kangarooing away from a standstill and then failing to stop at busy junctions because the driver's right leg was wedged between the clutch and brake pedals with their foot on the bulkhead. I'm fairly sure that Land Rover polished the pedals so they could blame the squaddie behind the wheel rather than their feeble brakes when one of their flagship models crashed, which they often did.

The petrol ones weren't quite as bad - your feet only slipped off the pedals when it rained, which was all the time, but at least the spilled fuel evaporated fairly quickly. This would have left the occupants as high as a kite if Land Rover had not thoughtfully provided plenty of ventilation in the cabin.

Unfortunately, they achieved that by ensuring that none of the panels fitted properly so there were huge gaps around the doors and where the canvas roof 'fitted' (I use the term loosely, which is appropriate given how slack they got after an initial nail-breaking period of too-tightness).

This clever design feature allowed plenty of fresh air to circulate in the cabin, along with rain, sleet, snow and midges, which are wee bitey things if you're nae Scottish.

It also meant things could easily get out, like important documents, dropped magazines (both ammunition and porn), vomit and the occasional passenger as the doors would hilariously pop open when cornering hard and nobody bothered to wear the static seatbelts, which were always a tangled mess hanging out of the door bottoms anyway. In fact I do have an ex-forces acqaintance who gets a war pension because of injuries sutained when he fell out of a Land Rover and went under the back wheels.

Anyway, I hope I haven't diverged too far off topic, and good luck finding a place for your fuel tank. I'd just recommend that you don't put it under the passenger seat...

deni

9th December 2021, 10:54

:lol::lol::lol: MrT that made me laugh man, thank you.

Reading your story, I can only conclude that if the iconic Land Rover could get away with it, so can I, whatever I decide to do.... but I will definitely cross off the "under the passenger seat" option from my list of possible locations :wink:

I hope your build is going ok.

Cheers, D.

Mister Towed

10th December 2021, 08:37

Glad I made you laugh, Deni.

I'm getting close to finalising my door apertures at the moment so I should have an update soon :)

Keep up the good work!

deni

11th December 2021, 10:30

Thanks MrT, looking forward to seeing how the doors will turn out. They looked great in your recent post.

Cheers, D

deni

27th June 2022, 13:47

Originally Posted by davecymru:
....Additionally to that and with the help of the nice chaps at Merlin Motorsport and the Triumph Owners Club forum, I've been doing a bit of research into the Vitesse Suspension as I'm not happy with how mine is sitting at the front and my local MOT men don't like chopped springs!

Here's an interesting read (with embedded charts) for anyone looking at altering their front suspension that shows you what std springs were fitted and advise for after-market spring rates:

http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/f...?m-1294420747/

That shows us is the front spring rates and that the OEM ones are 2 3/4" internal diameter.

Now interestingly.... if you buy the height adjustable GAZ shocks from mssr's Rimmer, those were custom made for Rimmers with a 2 3/4" spring seat so you could fit the std springs!
I know this as the nice man at Merlin Motorsports rang them and asked for me

But... most after-market lowering springs, including the ones i'd bought previously specifically for the Vitesse (although i can't remember where from) are 2 1/2" Internal Diameter!

So, If you alter the spring seats down to 2 1/2" (not too hard i've found!), or buy some 2 1/2" spring seats for your shocks then suddenly the world is your lobster!!

And if you talk to the nice man at Merlin, you can opt for just about any length and rate of 2 1/2" spring that you'd ever want and for not a lot of money at all!!

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s...ilover-springs

After my reading and measuring i have now ordered some 2 1/2" x 8" x 325lbs springs and we shall see what we shall see....

Hi,

I need to ask a question please? This is a quote from Dave Cymry's Miglia blog (I hope Dave that you still look at this forum now and then).

I will buy/part exchange the bottom spring seats, but I'm not sure what is the solution for the top plates that are on the original shocks, as they are used with the GAZ absorbers to fix them to the chassis.

Did you modify the original top spring plates in any way to fit the smaller diameter spring?

I know that I could buy springs from Rimmers, but they are longer and stiffer than the ones I would like to buy, and I would prefer not to cut the springs down.

Cheers, D.

deni

27th June 2022, 13:50

I'm not sure what happened to the pictures in my blog, as I can see them anymore. Any suggestions please?

Cheers, D.

Paul L

27th June 2022, 22:21

Hi Deni, I just checked back a few pages and I can't see the photos either. Perhaps send John/"JG" a PM as he is the forum 'master'. There have been a number of technical problems with posting stuff on here lately, so the photo issue might be linked to that. Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

28th June 2022, 13:59

Thanks Paul, I will send him a message.

Cheers, D.

Biggles

5th July 2022, 17:04

If you need springs, don’t go to the middle man, go to Faulkner springs directly…..

deni

6th July 2022, 22:37

Hi Biggles,

Thanks for your advice, I'll contact Faulkner springs and check out what they charge.

Btw, do you know by any chance if there will be any fitting issues with the original Triumph top spring seats now I intend to use a smaller ID springs?

Cheers, D.

deni

12th January 2023, 18:14

Just testing the photo upload

The photos below show the replacement of the handbrake cable and adding the attachment for the handbrake lever.

deni

12th January 2023, 18:19

Hi all,

It's been a while....just a quick update of the recent work I done on the car.

However, it's been long time since I could view the photos on my thread. I have sent multiple emails to the admin, but it seems that nothing changed. This is very frustrating, but I will upload the photos anyway, maybe some of you can see them...

deni

12th January 2023, 18:26

I started to fabricate the handbrake brackets for the spitfire handbrake. As the seating position is further back in Miglia, I have adapted a short cable (from Vauxhall Corsa I believe) to be able to fix the handbrake further back.

deni

12th January 2023, 18:41

I have also braced the front sides of the frame, to make it a bit stronger in that area.

I have also replaced the springs and the shock absorbers. I swapped my 2.3/4" spring seats for 2.5" ones to be able to use the springs with 2.5" ID-there is much more choice of springs with this ID.
I opted for 9" long/170lb springs. The car sits much lower now and I can adjust the height further. I will make a final adjustments when I put the wheels I will be using and when the body is back on the frame.

deni

12th January 2023, 18:53

Finally I have tackled the bulkhead. I have used my fibreglass copy of the original bulkhead that I made some time ago. I was determined not to drill the holes in the frame and use bolts. I decided to bond the fibreglass to the frame with the Tigerseal and I have added some additional brackets that fasten the bulkhead to the frame on the sides and the back side of it. I'm pleased how it turned out.

After this I used aluminium sheet to clad the bulkhead. It was a challenge for me to do this, but I'm happy with the result. I still need to insert and glue/rivet the battery box and finish fettling with the master cylinder plate.

deni

12th January 2023, 18:54

Some more bulkhead photos...

deni

12th January 2023, 18:59

This was the only way I could see the photos, so I now need to click on them to be able to see them...anyway...

I wish you all Happy 2023, and I will post more photos when I made further progress.

Cheers,D.

Paul L

20th April 2023, 07:46

Deni – A belated ‘Happy New Year!’ to you too.

Looks like a major job on the bulkhead, which should look great when the plastic is peeled off. :cool:

It is a pain, but adding [ i m g ] before and [ / i m g ] after the image link, without spaces, gives this…

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7635&d=1673548982

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7637&d=1673549655

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

24th April 2023, 10:42

Thanks Paul,
Yes, the bulkhead is done and I'm pleased with it. I decided to use the fibreglass one underneath, as it is light and adds strength. In the beginning, when I made the fibreglass copy of the original bulkhead, in my inexperience I thought it was important to replicate the original bulkhead, so cladding it with aluminium was a bit of a challenge due to the curvy shape. However, I am happy how it turned out.

If I knew then what I know now, I would keep it simpler, but using it helped me with positioning the pedals, the master cylinders and the steering wheel in good position.

Cheers, D

P.S. Thanks for the advice with images, I'll try that next time. However, I am not sure was something meant to be visible below your text, but I don't see anything there.

deni

24th April 2023, 18:05

Hi Paul,
Just checked my blog on another computer and I could see the photos you have posted there, so thank you for the advice.

Cheers, D.,

Paul L

25th April 2023, 05:19

Deni – Glad the photos appeared to you ‘somewhere’, as I knew I could see them.
(Which meant I was completed stumped when you said it was blank on your screen.)

Quote: “If I knew then what I know now, I would keep it simpler…”

Have you read my build? ;)

There were plenty of times I made more work for myself on a project that already had no end in sight. :rolleyes:

However, if you can keep chipping away at the ‘To Do’ list then the day will come when the car is done. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni

25th April 2023, 10:20

Hi Paul,
Yes, it's weird- I can see the photos on my laptop and my phone, but they are not showing on Android tablet I have. It must be something with Android OS.

Yeah, my build is slow, and I work on the car whenever I can, but as you said, I'll keep ticking the jobs off the list till it is done, and I'll try to keep it simple in the future. 😉

Your build thread is one of my "go to" places when I'm trying to figure out how to do something. The determination and the patience you showed while building The Swordfish outside, on your driveway remains inspirational. Builds like yours, Mr.Towed's, Dave Cymry's and couple of others encouraged me to try to build my car.
Thank you for your encouragement, help, advice and support over the years, it is much appreciated!

Cheers,D.