engine options for herald based miglia

[1iTim]

Hello all, I've just agreed to buy a herald to start in prep
for a miglia, but it is a 948. What other triumph engines fit? I could import a reco vitesse but then i have no local parts... Will the later sedan triumph 2000 or 2500 6 cyl fit? When you talk of a rover v8 what car is it from? Range rover?? Vandenplas? what gearbox if not from that car? I'm in sydney,aus, and don't enjoy the same diversity of old English cars as you all do. Any help is appreciated.

[tlrtone]

Hello all, I've just agreed to buy a herald to start in prep
for a miglia, but it is a 948. What other triumph engines fit? I could import a reco vitesse but then i have no local parts... Will the later sedan triumph 2000 or 2500 6 cyl fit? When you talk of a rover v8 what car is it from? Range rover?? Vandenplas? what gearbox if not from that car? I'm in sydney,aus, and don't enjoy the same diversity of old English cars as you all do. Any help is appreciated.

I'm no expert, but any triumph Herald, Spitfire, MG midget engine will fit with little or no modifications, so 1200, 1300, 1500 4 cylinders and 1600 and 2000 vitesse 6 cylinders.
Being a 948, you will probably need to look at the brakes as they will need upgrading, so you will need ot look around at what fits.

We need to be careful here in the UK as we need to get it through a DVLA inspection so we try and stick to same/similar engines as above for registration purposes, but if you don't need to do that then the world is your oyster!

Mike has a Rover V8 for sale - he was going to build a V8 version (with the upside down wheelbarrow bonnet) but he is now too busy to do that so I think he still has it - might be an option if you are already shipping a kit?

I am not sure about later 2000 or 2500 engines, I assume that they can be modded to fit somehow, and look at a ford Type 9 5-speed conversion too which will at least take care of the gearbox end (Jigsaw racing do them).

remember the Miglia is a lot lighter than the metal body herald so even a 1300 can go well. I have opted for a 1500 MG Midget engine (same as the Spitfire 1500) and just reconditioned it. To be honest, you need to do a lot of work on the suspension to make it handle like a modern car so don't go too mad on the engine without doing the rest of it!

Good luck, sounds interesting anyway - lots of pictures - even of the sorry donor

[davecymru]

My Sammio donor was originally a Herald 13/60 but had been converted to a 2l Vitesse by a previous owner. It's do'able and not massively over complicated to upgrade, by its advisable to do it and get an engineers report and all sorted with the DVLA before you start on the kit! Otherwise you're into IVA Territory.

[slartibartfast]

Hi
Welcome to the madhouse ....
One of my "other" cars is a Rover P5B with the Buick 3.5 v8 engine. It's light but it's pretty pokey .... As Tirtone says, I think you would have to make a LOT of suspension mods to accomodate the power. Good luck. Looking forward to your progress .... and lots of piccies.
Slarti

[1iTim]

Thanks guys, the only reason im thinking v8 is the comparative availability of the engine and parts. I know the standard 4 is easiest and that would be my preferred option. I may well stick with the 948. pic is too large to post. I'll look at degrading it later. Thanks for yoyr replies. I'll look at the gearboxes too.

[mikmiglia]

Welcome

Apparently the 1300 is a good all round tuneable engine , a company in Dorset Southern Triumph told me he has a 1300 lump pushing out 130 bhp , not to bad
. The red Miglia with the 1500 was nippy and sounded great.

Anyway look forward to see your progress.:thumb:

[1iTim]

912hi pics of donor as requested:

[Mister Towed]

G'day one-eye-Tim and welcome to the forum.

Is your donor engine in good running condition?

If so I'd be tempted just to use it and source some twin carbs, hotter camshaft or maybe bolt on a turbo at a later date. These cars are more about the diy build and the driving experience than pure performance. The finished article is quite light so a little power goes quite a long way. :)

The cars also have limited protection from the elements so even when you're going sub 100kph you'll feel like Burt Munro going flat out on the Bonneville salt flats. Fantastic fun even when granny is sitting behind you and flashing to get past.

After all, the original company demonstrator used a 948 and still has it as far as I'm aware -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/Davidpics061.jpg (http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/dmonebillion/media/Davidpics061.jpg.html)

Good luck with whatever direction you choose to go with your Miglia, looking forward to seeing it progress.

Oh, and most of us use Photobucket to upload pictures.

Try www.photobucket.com and follow the instructions.

[Paul D]

Hi Tim and Mr. T,

If I could jump in with a quick update on '66', when I brought her back from Germany it was fitted with an 1100 lump that according to the book originally put out about 47 HP. From the paperwork it looks like this was installed in the donor when Gary bought it. Most of those had long escaped and it was in a poor way. We have almost finished a full engine rebuild of a 1300 unit to drop in instead, with an unleaded head, twin SU carbs & tubular 4-2-1 manifold. Should be good for around 75 hp?

I did seriously consider putting in a straight six, having a 2.5 litre unit from a 2500 PI sitting in the garage. However the very early chassis's ('66' was rather confusingly built on a 1959 donor) apparently had a rather different chassis of thinner gauge metal in places and different engine mounts. When the first Vitesses were introduced Triumph changed the chassis for the more powerful engine. This new chassis I understand became the new standard for both Heralds and Vitesses from that point onward. So in summary, shoe-horning a Vitesse six into an early 948 chassis is probably not the best plan, notwithstanding the issue of stopping the extra weight up front on drum brakes all round!

Hope this helps in some way,

Paul.

[1iTim]

Thanks paul, thanks mr t. I will assess the 948 when its in my garage. My prob is that a used un restored 1275 + reco parts (let alone the machining labour) here in aus will cost me the same as a reco from rimmer. And i will have to decide so to ship it with the kit. I have some thinking to do! Like will the gearbox fit/cope? I have assumed it would be little changed over the years.
Has anyone been mounting the engine further back in the car or does the chassis rail spacing interfere with the transmission?

[Mister Towed]

I'd say there's no need to move the engine back.

I've just been for a blast in mine with its huge, cast iron six sitting over the steering rack and the handling is very neutral and really confidence inspiring. Surprisingly good, in fact, considering it's been set up by me by eye. :nerd:

Unless you're looking for a competitive track day car where every thousandth of a second counts I wouldn't lose any sleep over where the engine sits in the chassis. After all, Phil and Barry are putting in similar lap times to Porsche 911's in theirs. :lol:

[micky1mo]

What about a BMW E30, E36 or even a 325i engine and box?:doubt:
I have been looking for a 6 cylinder Triumph engine with no luck but I have come across a BMW E30, 1.8cc engine and box while visiting a friend.
I recon with a little effort it'll fit the Herald chassis :icon_biggrin:

I'll let you know how I get on later this week :banplease:

[Jerome]

Hello,

I am fitting a Ford Pinto 2.0 OHC (sierra etc)in my son,s Herald and it fits
surprisingly good at te chassis.
So far minor changes,only the motor supports and the propshaft have to be
altered.
Pro for miglia is that the gearbox is much longer!

gr.Rob

[1iTim]

looks like a non herald engine in my herald, FE12951. spitfire?http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

I go to pick it up in october - presently 1000km away, but seller has read the commission and engine numbers to me.

Any gurus can tell me about that number?

(looking forward to your next update TLRTone, got the body on yet?)

[micky1mo]

Pre-fix FE relates to Spitfire Mk111,1300cc, USA only??

[mikmiglia]

Just out of interest , how would a mg midget fit ?? looks almost the same unit.

[tlrtone]

looks like a non herald engine in my herald, FE12951. spitfire?http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

I go to pick it up in october - presently 1000km away, but seller has read the commission and engine numbers to me.

Any gurus can tell me about that number?

(looking forward to your next update TLRTone, got the body on yet?)

Engine numbers here... http://www.triumphspitfire.com/enginenumbers.html

The MG Midget 1500 engine fits (same as the Spitfire 1500) which is what I have in mine.

Not got the body on yet, Mike is delivering it this weekend and I have been away with work so not had a chance to do anything else on mine unfortunately....

[1iTim]

Hey just a thought guys, with all the upgrading wheel sizes that i've read going on, how are you calibrating the mech speedo on the heralds? I've searched the site but cannot find much on the triumph speedo fixes. Thanks for the engine number info too. (5 weeks to go until i collect my donor!!)

[Mister Towed]

Hey just a thought guys, with all the upgrading wheel sizes that i've read going on, how are you calibrating the mech speedo on the heralds? I've searched the site but cannot find much on the triumph speedo fixes. Thanks for the engine number info too. (5 weeks to go until i collect my donor!!)

Try using this tyre size calculator, up to about a 10% increase in rolling diameter will just take out the typical under read that manufacturers build in to make sure their cars don't break the speed limit -

http://www.kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

When changing away from standard diffs, matching the speedo and differential helps. I fitted a 3.27:1 GT6 diff, and then sourced a non overdrive GT6 speedo to match (there's a web site somewhere that deciphers the codes on the front of the Triumph speedos). That way I ended up with a very accurate speedo - when it said 100mph on the dyno that's what the dyno said the wheels were doing.

Phil J has taken a slightly different approach, his Spitfire diff and Vitesse or Herald speedo don't match, so he's used a sat nav reading as a known speed and marked the face of the speedo with a marker pen accordingly. Before that, with the speedo reading 55mph he was actually going about 80...

Anyway, good luck getting some means of measuring speed sorted, but it's not rocket science :)

[micky1mo]

Fittted that BMW 1.8i + gearbox into a 1968 Herald :flame: :flame:

Even managed to link a photo :flame: :flame:

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/micky1mo/REPLICARIDES409_zps9e5f2afe.jpg

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/micky1mo/REPLICARIDES_zpscb8595be.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/micky1mo/media/REPLICARIDES_zpscb8595be.jpg.html)

[Mister Towed]

That looks very neat. :eusa_clap:

How did you manage the details, like the gearbox to prop shaft/differential connection, electrics/ecu, high pressure fuel system with tank return for the injection etc etc?

[micky1mo]

That looks very neat. :eusa_clap:

How did you manage the details, like the gearbox to prop shaft/differential connection, electrics/ecu, high pressure fuel system with tank return for the injection etc etc?

We firstly had the engine running on the deck, so we sorted out most the details before fitting the engine such as the loom, remote fuel pump ect.
A fuel tank is yet to be "found" and fitted, but looking at a VW beetle tank :flame:
Used the gearbox UJ from the BMW fitted the Herald prop shaft via a machined collar, thanks PJO engineering :flame:
Still waiting on a replacement oil sump.

The next real problem is the exhaust down pipe as there not a lot of room between the engine and chassis rail, I might have to use flexi pipe :eusa_pray:

The diff is standard but what else is there :ballchain: ?

The bonnet will end up with a very large "power" bulge :biggrin:

[AndyP57]

I know we're a distance away but we've got a beetle tank here you can have ;-)

[micky1mo]

I know we're a distance away but we've got a beetle tank here you can have ;-)

Hi Andy, thanks for the offer but I have one here, just got to re-plumb it and make it fit :icon_idea:

[AndyP57]

make it fit :icon_idea: :smash: :biggrin:

[micky1mo]

Thought the hard works was over but spent most of the day re-mounting the alternator :eusa_wall: