Scimitar Based 1950's Style Race Car

[lancelot link]

Following on from a subject touched upon on my other thread on here regarding the Sammio Spyders - I have decided to start a new thread covering our new project , The working title is SAMMIO G46 - That might change !

The new body is being developed to fit the Scimitar SE5 chassis and running gear...The SE5 is 99'' wheelbase as opposed to its SE6 sibling that is 103.5'' ...The later version has been adopted by the Hot Rodders as its pretty much Ford Model A or Willys Coupe dimensions , as well as being only 2.5'' shorter than the Ford Model B chassis...we are using the shorter chassis as it is dimensionally more appropriate for our needs being slightly shorter and a few inches narrower as well...This is still a big car though at approx 14' long !

The project is concentrating on body production at present ...it is being built in the same way as the Spyder , a replacement body for a stock Chassis ( no mods at all - many people using these chassis remove outriggers and the fuel tank - not us !! ) The body will rely on the Scimitar bulkhead in the same unique way the Spyder does and the example we are building currently uses the entire Scimitar floor as well - its there , we may as well use it !......The cars will undergo a re-name only , no IVA , still retaining original registration , tax exempt where applicable etc. etc....This body will feature , seperate double skinned doors a bonnet and maybe a bootlid as well !





My colleague and myself have started shaping the body up ...we are using lots of foam strips to get the voluptuous curves of a mid 50's car that I am looking for and work is moving on steady inbetween 'proper' work...

Heres some taster pics , you need to use a bit of imagination at the moment , but I'm really pleased with the way its shaping up so far....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0180.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0182.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0183.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0179.jpg



I'm not sure how far these will be developed as a 'kit' yet ....initially bodies and sundries only and we will build some turnkeys as well ....prices are to be confirmed but initial calculations suggest that a full bodyshell with accompanying panels etc in an extra thick layup should be around the £1500-1600 mark

[PaulC]

I don't know where you find the time.

As with the Herald though I'm wondering about donor availability. Aren't the cheap ones knackered and the decent ones expensive restorations?

[lancelot link]

Paul ....Having Mike on board has helped ease the workload - still doing 55 hr weeks though most weeks.

The Scimitar based kit won't be as popular as the Herald one - price and build level are different....There are surprisingly quite a few SE5's around ...since we started I have bought 3 ...a nice one for £700 , not so nice £200 and horrid £50 ! I have been offered about 5 others as well ....they are out there.

Both Herald and Scimitar share a similar chassis in design and make it ideal for avoiding SVA/IVA etc....they also both fit into the category of costing more to restore than they are worth restored - keeping prices reasonable for now....

[lancelot link]

Just left the workshop - we have gotten the bonnet skin in place and Mike was busy gluing foam strips on as I left....

When one side is pretty much shaped up , we will roll it outside and take some better pics...

[Roadster]

Hi Gary, any update on this project?

I know you are always busy have you managed to roll her forward to get some better pictures.

[lancelot link]

Hi,
We have been plodding on with this one alongside the 550 ....updates on the recently revamped website.

heres a link

http://www.sammio-spyder.com/sammioG46.html

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST...

[Roadster]

Its looking great,
How long do you expect before its completed?

I have already spoken to you about the rear section to fit to my mx5 based special - my jag front end is well under way and now I have seen the progress on the rear of your car its a definite.

So I want to put my name down for the second rear out of the mould.

Do you need a deposit?

[Roadster]

I need it without the head fairing though

Any plans for a bootlid?

[lancelot link]

I need it without the head fairing though

Any plans for a bootlid?

aaah ...its you ! Hello...

No deposit reqd. thanks , just let you know when we are ready to go....

The tank causes a few issues with the boot area , but there is a massive loadspace doing nothing under there ( rear seats originally )..so we may try and fit a boot incorporated into the headfairing , perhaps or just to one side - not sure yet....will probably be a lift out panel rather than hinged at this stage...

[Roadster]

A lift out panel would be very useful but i wont ask you to make it specially as I will be ready for the back end as soon as its made,

Is blanking out the fairing going to be a problem as i need to cut this area away for the hood?

[lancelot link]

A lift out panel would be very useful but i wont ask you to make it specially as I will be ready for the back end as soon as its made,

Is blanking out the fairing going to be a problem as i need to cut this area away for the hood?

Blanking out the fairing will be pretty styraight forward ...we have done it a few times with the Spyder - you get some scarring , but not too bad ...a bit of a tickle with some filler and alls good.....

I am leaning towards creating a bootlid that will be part of the headrest , so your body section would need to be moulded slightly differently but , you could create a bootlid fairly easily - difficult to explain without standing next to the car , but we would create the apperture for you as well....

[Roadster]

no problem as soon as you let me know i will come down and finalise the changes.
Im sure when all prepped and painted , everyone will think it was designed bespoke.

Is it still looking to be complete in 6 weeks? or have i slightly longer to wait?

[lancelot link]

We are forging on - no pun intended ...actually not relevant as we aren't copying anything ( stop rambling Gary !! ) .......

I have taken the reins of general kit production and customers projects for the last two weeks to enable Mike to carry on with the G-46....He is doing a fantastic job...it is very rewarding to see your ideas coming to life in front of you and I am very lucky to have someone on board who , not only has an equal interest in the car and 'gets' the design , but can shape up a body exactly how I can picture it and often without needing much prompting from me ....Mike totally knows how this car should look and can make it happen...His input has been invaluable...

We still have a couple of design elements to play with - we think the car needs side vents on the front wings , its a big car with large areas and a bit of wing detail will help break it up a bit , plus the V6 will need to get rid of hot air as well...The vents drawn are our initial idea ...I like the 'porthole' idea - mid 50's Buick style , not sure the car needs a big vent like some , just a suggestion of breathing holes really ....trying to avoid 'gills' as the car looks enough like a Blue Whale or Great White as it is !!

Here's some pics ...

The way the wing flows into the grille mouth is an area I am really pleased with ..the smallish opening has great lines ....And look at the way the wing climbs from the door and flows back down again ....the 'coke bottle' effect combined with its silhouette make this car just so beautiful ...Im my opinion , of course , and I am a bit biased !!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0205.jpg

The exhaust's exiting through the rear valance is a little detail that I really like and they are the stock Scimitar exhausts....the body has been totally formed to fit a stock chassis , outriggers , fuel tank , exhaust etc - all as they were .....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0206.jpg

Apologies for gushing - I am so passionate about this project , it is hard to not to .....

Should start moulding the body in the next two weeks - hopefully..

[Roadster]

Garry its looking fantastic and your right Mike is a genius.

I can't wait to come and collect my rear moulding

I was worried the back end was going to look a little heavy but in the latest pics it looks as dainty as the spyders.

I thought i had figured out in my head the rear light configaration but i will have to wait till its here as its changed a little since i saw it last.

Keep up the good work it has come on leaps and bounds in just a few weeks. im so impressed

[lancelot link]

Our thoughts on rear lights were something like this earlier Sammio...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/sammio5a.jpg

I don't want to put one above the other as thats going down the Cobra route -nothing wrong with that , just trying to avoid the obvious....

I also have some '48 Ford lights I might play with as well....I like them , Mikes not so sure !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/140.jpg

[Roadster]

I was planning on using austin 1300 units on there side but i think the rear wing doesn't finish as flush with the rear like the spyder so i might have to re think or get the resin out

[mulberry]

wow she looks stunning gary, half of me wish i waited and built that scimitar,HEY ANY IDEA`S ON THE SEAT`S,

[lancelot link]

wow she looks stunning gary, half of me wish i waited and built that scimitar,HEY ANY IDEA`S ON THE SEAT`S,

Build the Sammio , run it for a year or so ....sell it ( we just received a deposit on the red one at a sale price of £6750 and thats not as nice underneath as yours is going to be....well £7600 delivered to Stuttgart , actually ) and then build a G-46 .....More than happy to sell you another project , Gary !!!

[Roadster]

Garry can we have more pics please especially of the rear ok im biased because its the part im waiting for - but i need to keep the creative juices flowing as i pick the resin and glass from my hands.

[Nike55]

I love the idea of a 'supersized' Spyder with the G46 project. It looks a little 'D-type ish' and the size of the beast means it will have road 'presence'. There must be very viable market for this type of vehicle. The idea of using a Scimitar as a base vehicle is inspired - it's all there, just waiting for a change of clothes.

[lancelot link]

THANK YOU ....We aren't the first to 'discover' the Merits of the Scim ...maybe the first to leave the chassis totally stock - not sure....



...um, anyone know anyone who could re-body an SE5 for me please...

:help:

UM....Yes ....give me a call , we are very busy but an ex-employee of mine has set up shop in Newbury and is more than capable...

[Nike55]

Thanks for your kind comment. Will give you a call once I have obtained a suitable donor (probably September).

I'm looking forward to seeing photos of the finished prototype and wonder if you plan to create a 'walk through' of how to put one together; similar to your picture spread on the Spyder build (when time permits!)

Cheers.

[davecymru]

I saw the updated photos on the web site and it's all looking very nice!

I must make sure that i have a good nosey when i'm down next Wed, although i think i'll leave my wallet in the van as i've promised the wife that once the Spyder is on the road in a few week i'll do a few more family things before i even start considering another project :)

[lancelot link]

Whilst reading back through this thread , I realised that I hadn't put a picture of the stripped out donor car on...

Its different to the original Sammio - this time we use bulkhead , floor and inner arches , inner cills etc...the new body bonding to the original with a smaller steel hoop frame...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF01762.jpg

[garyh]

I guess this will shift a bit...

[lancelot link]

3.0 V6 / Manual.....not too shoddy ....about the equivalent BHP wise as an MX5 , but with a nice little burble coming from the exhaust......

[samwise]

For years an Se5 has decorated our drive and now just as it's time for her overhaul to become roadworthy again, my old man showed me this Sammio Project. I'll join the queue for a kit! :eusa_clap:

Thanks for the fast response email Gary.

[garyh]

Are there any other cars that you think could be used? my brother really likes the cars you're building but worries about :biggrin1: the age of the Herald.
Gary.

[lancelot link]

Rolled the car outside today.....had to get a car out to go to the trimmers and workshop was in desperate need of a sweep out !

took these pics....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0210.jpg



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0212-1.jpg

should finish shaping up in next week or so ..then start the moulding process....first body out wil be modified and remoulded in places to create bonnet apertures , lights etc...I will probably keep that one as not really going to be ideal to sell as a new body. inbetween all this a rear end will be sorted for Roadster on here...first official complete new one goes to Patrice in France , then we have a Dutch one to sort out ( LHD , I think ) after that , ???

[Roadster]

Looks better outside - i wish i had been there so i could have walked around it.
Did you get my email? Do you think it will be ready to collect on the 30th August.

[lancelot link]

Looks better outside - i wish i had been there so i could have walked around it.
Did you get my email? Do you think it will be ready to collect on the 30th August.

Yes Mate , got it ...don't foresee a problem at this stage ....Mikes on the ol' gal again today and next week - so things are moving along..

Oh , by the way ....when you left last time , we noticed a huge amount of dust had gone missing ...Mike thinks he saw most of it attached to your jacket and trousers ....thats development dust and highly significant , a crucial part of keeping our workshop looking like a sh*thole....could you return it on your next visit please !!!

[Roadster]

Hows she going Garry?
Almost ready to start laying up the moulds yet.

[lancelot link]

For years an Se5 has decorated our drive and now just as it's time for her overhaul to become roadworthy again, my old man showed me this Sammio Project. I'll join the queue for a kit! :eusa_clap:

Thanks for the fast response email Gary.

No worries.....we are trying like mad to get this ready asap....

not long now.....

[lancelot link]

Are there any other cars that you think could be used? my brother really likes the cars you're building but worries about :biggrin1: the age of the Herald.
Gary.

Not sure why he's worrying about the Heralds age in a Scimitar based thread ! LOL....

The donors are classics in their own right for various reasons....seperate chassis , tax exemption , cheap donors , non SVA etc. but that doesn't mean you are totally restricted to them as the donor....We supply an outer skin style bodyshell that can be fitted to any chassis that is dimensionally correct - in other words , pick a set of running gear that will work , trackwise , height etc and you , or someone , can make a spaceframe or box style chassis to suit.
We have a background in box or ladder style chassis , similar to the classic versions under various seperate bodied cars ...Ford Pops etc...so we could build a chassis in that style with bulkhead hoops etc to fit the bodies ...very similar to a Sammio Spyder format...Spaceframes isn't my field really but , depending on your location , I can point you in the right direction...

The Spyder body is a tricky one to find alternative donor running gear for as it has a fairly narrow track ....we are working on a wider version to accept MX5 drivetrain , so that may be an option.
Our 550 really needs to be rear engined , but again , a new chassis and virtually every new bit you could want for a Beetle , is available aftermarket ...so building new is an option there...

The G-46 is a 99' wheelbased , 5.5' tracked car ....so no obvious donors except the MX5 again that will fit trackwise but need a stretched wheelbase - pretty simple as they have a front and rear subframe style under carriage.

An MX5 powered G-46 could be a great car ......food for thought.

[lancelot link]

Slow progress on this one whilst the German Cousin dominated things here for a while - but we are back.....

We need to get the G-46 to Exeter , would be disasterous if it doesn't make it , so things are starting to move again....

Mike is chucking the filler about again !! Would you believe there is about 30 tins of no.7 slop in this beast so far....thats on top of the foam , paste , hardboard etc....

We have moulded the doors ( 4'' lengthened Porsche 550 doors ) and they are ready to go ....body flanging starts next week....

Some pics of progress.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0225-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0226-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0228-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0229-1.jpg

[Nike55]

This is really looking an impressive beast - it will have great presence on the road.

It will look brilliant in BRG with brown leather trim, or Italian Racing Red and black trim or SLR Silver with red trim (& twin headrests, chip grater grill...) ...or Squadron Blue or....

Keep up the good work.

[lancelot link]

My friend , Chris Welch , the guy who had the issues with the Supra based B*ntley styled car this year , has done this little rendition for me in exchange for lending him an MX5 to get all creative with !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/untitled-2.jpg

Gives people an idea of what direction I am going in with this one ....

[Mister Towed]

Yep, can see where you're going with this one, Gary.

Just needs twin head fairings, silver paint and a big three pointed star in the grille and it's instant Merc SLR at 1/100th of the price.

I do like the powder blue paint, too. Not brave enough to deviate from red, black or silver for my own pride 'n' joy, however.

:peep:

[lancelot link]

Some update pics of the current state of play.....starting to panic about Exeter now ! ....I think we will have an outer skin body with seperate doors sat on a partially stripped Scimitar to show people - should be enough for those that 'get it'

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0246.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0245.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0244.jpg

[Psycho pops]

Whats happening in pic 3:whistle:

[davecymru]

I think the pressure is starting to show through! :)

[redratbike]

Whats happening in pic 3:whistle:

i think its for "the ladies"
:jaw:

[redratbike]

Hi Gary, any more pics of the latest developments?

[redratbike]

Hi Gary, any more pics of the latest developments?

silly question as you are busy getting ready for the show..i'll wait for other peoples pics from the weekend as i cant make it down there :icon_mad:

[lancelot link]

Orca lives !!
We have moulded a body with seperate doors but no headlight detail or bonnet aperture as of yet.......we just ran out of time.

The body is out of the mould and has been fitted to the Scimitar with wooden batons at present.

It is certainly good enough for people to see the finished concept.

She will be on display with doors and headlight covers taped in place....

We rolled her out today and she does look fantastic ....

Mike has done an incredible job shaping her up.

Now we need to sell a few !!

I will be offering them at the show and for a few days after at the website price but having done my sums ( and underestimating just how big they are to lay up ! ) they will have to be sold at £1695 for the body package , basic framework and headlight covers.....

[Mister Towed]

That still looks like great value compared to most kit packages Gary, I hope you get some interest and orders at Exeter. Long live Orca! :eusa_clap:

[lancelot link]

THANKS ....

I am very pleased with just how the body fits...

We locate the rear by slotting it over the exhaust pipe tips....there is a mould scar on the rear valance , that when cut out with a hole saw or similar creates the holes to give the car valance exiting exhaust tips ...the body just drops into place.

We are offering a basic 'goalpost' frame - one across the rear bulkhead area ro support the body there and two at the front across under the dash ..this will brace and support the body as well as giving a mounting point for the steering column. These goalpost hoops are tied together along the cills with little outrigger style brackets to fit the doorstep down to...

The rest of the body location is done by fitting plywood or similar bulkheads , kick panels , cover panels etc. The Scimitar provides all flooring , tunnel etc.

I think these will be even easier to buld than a Spyder as the fuel tank location , floor , tunnel etc is all done for you....door hinges are to be external mini style ( think Herald bootlid ! ) screen will be D-type style , front and sides ....

The development example ( ORCA ) is being built for a French customer ...I will add a build thread to this forum in the next week or so , as it develops....

[davecymru]

:) i look forward to seeing her on Saturday! with all the hard work you've both put in and from what i saw "in progress" when i picked my Spyder shell up a few months ago, i think she'll look great!

Now as long as you can build one with minimal sanding and filling, i think i may have my next project already lined up :)

[garyh]

A very imposing car, real presence! I think tomorrow will see a lot of interest in all 3 models. These are such classic shapes and each car will have its own character, who ever goes have a great day.:tea:

[tooslow]

Don't forget to post lots of pictures for those of us that can not make it.

[davecymru]

No pics i'm afraid, although i think Trevor may have taken some?

There is simply nothing like Orca out there although i think that due to the sheer size i would need a bigger garage to build her in! :) Talk about 'presence'! I can imagine hammering up the outside lane of a motorway, everyone will simply getting the heck out of the way :)

Seeing her next to the Spyder was cool as well as you can see the family resemblance, although the one thing i would say is that a Dick Dastardly mustache may be a necessity when driving as it does have an air of 'cad' about it. In the nicest possible sense :)

[Patton]

Ditto the word presence does sum it up, quite a machine piccy's don't do it justice, killer whale (orca) yep..Pat

[redratbike]

free scimitar buts its an se6 not sure if thats any good?

just found this ..nothing to do with me and its in Scotland so probably only worth someone up there grabbing it

Reliant Scimitar SE6 - Free to a good home For Sale (1976)

I have owned this vehicle since 1979. It was used as a family car continuously until 1995, since that time it has been laid up in my garage. It is complete undamaged and unmodified. Engine and running gear have not been exercised during layup. Recorded genuine mileage is 125000.

Advert Type: For Sale
Category: Classic Cars
Make: Reliant
Model: Scimitar SE6
Year: 1976
Country: UK
Region: Scotland
Town: Montrose
Telephone: 07043 241101 (Privacy Service)
Status: Private
E-mail: Contact Advertiser via Email
Listing Date: 01-Oct-2011

[lancelot link]

Thanks for the praise chaps - We were a little upset we ran out of time to get the body as far as we would have like ...time beat us but I think most people 'got it' and could see where it was heading.

We have actually had a very good day on it today ...Mike has started fashioning headlights and I started the patterning for the frame work inside.

The frame will concentrate mainly on the cockpit area , supporting central body and dash area as well as big steel side steps tying both ends together and creating a strong seat belt mount position....front end will be possibly a flip front now as the process of reaching over the wings to get to an opening to work on the engine might be a bit awkward as the car is so fat ! A C-TYPE style flip front would sort that out ....rear of the car will be bonded / glassed to the original Scim. floor and inner arches.

heres the latest pics....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0251.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0250.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0255.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0256.jpg

[Charman.tech]

My dad spoke to you last year when the Orca was "but a twink in your eye". Been following the web site and these forums and we both congratulate you for being imaginative, The G46 has to be the thinking man's Cobra!

Would have come to Exeter but decided to do this instead:
http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/charmantech1/?action=view&current=IMG_0340.jpg

He he RIP SE5a
http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/charmantech1/?action=view&current=IMG_0341.jpg

What does this need now ? Oh we know it needs a Sammio G46!

Chassis was done over the winter and re bracketed for a spare rover V8 we have in the garage. Car is on SORN and we hope we can change the engine details now on the Reg Doc and then simple
y but the body on and drive!

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m637/charmantech1/?action=view&current=IMG_0348.jpg

Hope to be the first V8 G46

Now how do we order?

Charlie & Peter.

[lancelot link]

HI,
WELL IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE FAIRLY COMMITTED !!

Thank you for the comments and it looks like you are ready !

My local VRO ( Stuart ) tells me that you can change your engine without compromising your SVA exemption , within reason ....a V8 Rover will be fine - I think you may need to modify your bulkhead slightly but nothing too drastic.

I will pm you details of payment of deposit , order details etc.....


We took one definite order at the show for one of these , received confirmation from another show attendee that their cheque is on the way , have had consultations with a Spanish guy thats looking very positive and have had a dutch guy lurking in the wings for a while that I am pretty confident about and now yourselves...so its starting to happen !

I think I probably need to sell 10 to get my expenses back !

THANK YOU

[lancelot link]

HI,


We have had consultations with a Spanish guy thats looking very positive and have had a Dutch guy lurking in the wings for a while that I am pretty confident about and now yourselves...so its starting to happen !

I think I probably need to sell 10 to get my expenses back !

THANK YOU

Just checked my emails and its looking quite cool....lots of enquiries about the G46 ...It's interesting to see how many people lurk on here ...they have obviously read posts on this forum from the way they talk or ask questions etc...I have had a 'when can you start' email from Spain and Michael from Holland is starting to cut his car this weekend !

I'm surprised by the interest in this one compared to the 550 ....I thought that would be the popular one ( Porsche replica's are usually a safe bet )..I'm guessing the more exciting lines and base car are whats bring Orca to everyones attention...

Today I made my first pattern frame to create a jig ....this frame is a pattern and will not be how they are supplied - all frames are now being made by a local fabrication company ...I supply a pattern and they jig it and keep it as a measuring example ...

The picture is pretty cr*p and the extremely busy bench behind doesn't help , but basically its a double front hoop with steering column mount that goes across the front, a rear hoop with stays fitted to rear inner arches ( these will be fully glassed to new body , so nice and strong ) and front and rear tied together with folded cill steps and plates up the A and B posts that are tied into the hoops front and rear also...the centre of the body will be bolted around the door apertures , along rear cockpit and dash , bulkhead and body sides glassed to the Scim bulkhead and rear bulkhead , inner rear arches etc all will be bonded in ply to new body and existing...The body will still come off complete with floor/bulkhead etc. if needed...This is important for SVA exemption - a stock Scim body could go back on with no mods....

THIS WILL BE INCREDIBLY STRONG....

Second pic shows car with flip front started and the voids we need to fill with ply etc...

I am thinking that I may supply paper patterns for the front sections of ply and possibly rear inners and bulkhead ....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0257.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0258.jpg

[jmc14]

Looking good and congratulations on the response. I hope that the G46 is a huge success for you.

[lancelot link]

Thank you John.....The build concept is much the same as the original Spyder - it seems to have worked before.......

1950's styled car built pretty much how they were 50-60 years ago !!


We managed to get a bit done today ....

Although the progress shots aren't incredibly interesting and not many visual changes apparent , its all part of showing how we 'stage build' the cars....I know people fing the 'getting started' bit of the website useful - if nothing else it gets people into the correct mind set to build the cars on the level they are built ....low tech and low price !

We cut out the bulkhead pieces and glassed them in place...really stiffens up the car and fills those big gaps between original bulkhead and new body...the 'step' on top of the lower wing panel will house a latch or pin setup to locate the flip front whilst down.

Future bodies will be supplied with some of this bulkhead moulded onto the body to locate the car onto the Scim bulkhead....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0258-1.jpg


second pic shows a new moulding taking shape ...

Patrice , the owner of this car has requested single tonneau and single screen for his example...we already offer the D-type STYLE centre bar as an option on the Spyders but have never really made a mould for it ....I have a feeling the bigger G46 might generate more requests for the centre divider , so Mike has started making a plug for a mould ...this piece can be used on eiither cars as , surprisingly , the Spyder and 46 are roughly the same cockpit length !

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0259.jpg

I think it looks really good ....and emulates the Jag that has had some influence on this car ..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/4061708100_9f9681e053.jpg


THANKS FOR READING .....

[Charman.tech]

Charlie and I are loving the centre bar, would it work with a full screen and a second head rest fairing.

What really looks cool is the photo of the "C" / "D" type with the single wrap around screen with the passenger side plug in place. But then we would have to build a car each, now that's an idea!!!!!!!!

[Richard1234510]

The passenger headrest idea has merit I think, is this an option Gary ? if so might help me pursuade the missus to embrace the idea of spending a few grand and lonely nights while I'm in the garage (mind you I'm sure there's always some B****cks on the telly ! Gary, I've been in touch before but this forum might be an easier route for communication. Cheers, Richard P.S. This project is a cracking idea and well done for seeing it through, I'm sure it'll be a great success.

[Patton]

My young ladies daughter pointed out to her " you know were he is when in the garage". Gary can do any fink solong as it's glass fibre...PAT

[davecymru]

My wife is irked as i've now installed heating in the garage and also two hooks for my hammock for when i'm "pondering" what to do next. I will do the windows on the main house..... soon :)

[lancelot link]

Charlie and I are loving the centre bar, would it work with a full screen and a second head rest fairing.

What really looks cool is the photo of the "C" / "D" type with the single wrap around screen with the passenger side plug in place. But then we would have to build a car each, now that's an idea!!!!!!!!


Please don't let me stop you building two ...!!!

Heres a pic of split cockpit , full screen on a D-type....looks pretty cool to me ..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/Jaguar20D-type20inside.jpg

As far as split cockpit full screen , two humps goes ....I think it would be ok....don't paint it black though ...with red bat logo's ....!!

The beauty of the concept , as with the original Sammio , is they are flexible ...only restricted by finances and time , not imagination ....replica's dont have this exciting edge as you have to conform to their factory options to be considered 'accurate' and fit in ...

I am thinking about doing a D-type / Cunningham style tail fin as an extra as well....not as harsh , a subtler version

I know its all a bit Jaguar-ish but the cars will look very different....

[lancelot link]

We got some smoothing out done today and finished the glasswork on the bonnet.....

The mould needs to be put back on now , cut and remade to include these new features....all these mods will be done by the w/end ....hopefully !!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0257-1.jpg


The next few pics show the cutline for the bonnet and how its beginning to shape up.....


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0258-2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0259-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0260.jpg

Headlight detail etc is clearly shown as well.....The car is really starting to happen !!

looking back at the pics , its funny how short the bonnet looks when cocked - it is pretty long in reality....the car is 14' long and the cockpit is 2'' shorter than the Sammio Spyder !

[micky1mo]

Paid Gary and Mike a visit today and fell in love!!!
Not with them but the sleak looking lady at the back of the workshop called a G-46!!
It's got the "x" factor for me!!
Liked the Spyder too so I ordered one of them as well!!
Got a Simitar but need a Herald can anybody help?
Regards
Mike:icon_smile:

[Sammio Builder]

Hi Mike,


Seriously?

Well done! Welcome to the mad house.


Trevor.
http://www.sammiospyder.blogspot.com/

[Mister Towed]

Got a Simitar but need a Herald can anybody help?
Regards
Mike:icon_smile:

This looks like it would be worth a look as a potential donor:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120802833853?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Not sure where you are in the country, but the herald is in Fakenham, Norfolk, which is in mine and psychopops neck of the woods.

Good luck finding a suitable donor and welcome to the club. :biggrin:

[lancelot link]

Paid Gary and Mike a visit today and fell in love!!!
Not with them but the sleak looking lady at the back of the workshop called a G-46!!


You sure about that ? .....you were looking at Mike a little odd .....!!

Seriously though ....it was good to meet you today and throw some ideas about...Another builder who 'gets it ' and can see the massive potential in these cars.....

I am really chuffed that we are getting deposits on a body package that we haven't quite finished yet....it's great that people can see where we are going .....

We have remoulded the front scuttle area of the car , so bodies with seperate flip fronts are ready to go now....we have secured 5 kits with deposits received and are expecting the first one to be ready in about 2-3 weeks from now....so nike55 , get ready , we are coming to get you !!

I am getting more interest in these initially than we did with the original Spyders , so hopefully a few will be turning up on these pages soon....

EXCITING TIMES !!


This Heralds not too far along the M4 from you .....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-HERALD-1200-GREY-/320786662637?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab06004ed

[Nike55]

Well, I'm ready - but not sure you will be able to handle the workload once the world see's 'my' take on the G46...

[micky1mo]

[QUOTE=Nike55;23868]Well, I'm ready - but not sure you will be able to handle the workload once the world see's 'my' take on the G46...[/QUOTE

That's whats so great about this car you look at it and your mind starts working out how your going to "make it fit" in your own way.

Each one should turn out as individual as the builder.

This car could be a real star!!!

[Charman.tech]

[QUOTE=lancelot link;23773]Please don't let me stop you building two ...!!!

Heres a pic of split cockpit , full screen on a D-type....looks pretty cool to me ..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/Jaguar20D-type20inside.jpg

As far as split cockpit full screen , two humps goes ....I think it would be ok....don't paint it black though ...with red bat logo's ....!!


Yes, time for the men in "white coats" Charlie and I are decided, split cock pit single drivers hump full screen. The jag cockpit is exactly that a "spitfire cockpit" wings optional!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like to pop down and see you week after next will call you first

Should we start our own thread? ie build diary

[lancelot link]

YOU ARE WELCOME TO CALL BY ANYTIME - You might be best advised to give us a little notice to just make sure we are about , we usually are ...the only appt. I have soon is the Orca Inspection...probably next week...

We have managed to get a bit more done on the car ....Mike concentrated on the rear end (his speciality !! ) and I stayed up front....

I have made a bolt on subframe , needs to be bolt on to keep us the right side of SVA , that enables me to hang the bonnet...some simple 'rabbit ear' brackets and 1'' box have made this job pretty straight forward....

SO THIS ....


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0225-3.jpg

NOW DOES THIS .....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0226-3.jpg

THANKS TO THIS BRACKETRY......

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0227.jpg


Mike meanwhile started cutting a bootlid....we had initially thought about leaving the boot area up to the builders choice , but pretty much everyone who has enquired wants to use that dead space....we have cut a hatch that is big enough to get a spare wheel through. It works really well as a spare fits in really nice and with the front of the wheel sat where a natural bulkhead can go inside the body , the spare just pokes ot , leaving a little room behind for a small jack or wheelbrace etc.
There is still two obvious boot space sections where the original back seat was and these can be accessed in the cockpit through hatches in the rear bulkhead ....so basically , the rarely touched spare etc is tucked away in the back , adding a bit of ballast at the same time and anything you want more regular - maps , picnic , tent etc can be kept seperate up the front section of the rear....
The bootlid itself can be either hinged or fitted with locating pins , quarter turn latches , zeus fasteners , whatever !!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0228-2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0229-2.jpg

Obviously , if someone doesn't want the bootlid , it can be filled in and glassed over by us....

I have been toying with making some dummy Rudge style wheels recently as well ....well actually they have been going on for about 6 months !!

Rudge knock on steels were used on 1950's Mercedes cars , Gullwings etc as well as turning up on Porsche 356's over the years as well....genuine examples now change hands for thousands of pounds EACH as they are pretty desirable in those circles ....

The slotted rims are very similar to the early Porsche / VW rims , so I am starting with that and making some 'knock on ' style hubcaps ....The Beetle rims will be fitted on adaptors and then these caps will be bolted on to the wheel studs to hold in place ...dummy rivets around the edge and the centre ring eventually will help give the look as well as a bit of tube in the centre and a spinner ....they aren't replica's of a Rudge but they are '' in the same style as '' and could be an interesting option to fitting wires ....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0223-2.jpg

[Roadster]

A bootlid?
Garry now your just teasing me
Seriously though she looks great, part of me wishes i had waited for that rear but im well past that now but at least it will explain if i get caught looking dreamily at the rear end of someones G46

[micky1mo]

I agree "looking good".
Be nice to see the wheels painted and on the car!!
I ment to ask why is the car called the G-46?
Also If I'm No5 on the G-46 body what is the number of my Spyder body?
Regards
Mike:razz:

[Roadster]

Garrys 46th design i guess

[lancelot link]

I ment to ask why is the car called the G-46?
Also If I'm No5 on the G-46 body what is the number of my Spyder body?
Regards
Mike:razz:

Mike ,
nothing very clever about the G46 name ..... The car was conceived and created within the last year and I have just had my 47th birthday !

The Sammio name comes from my son SAMUEL OWEN JANES being born around the same time as the project.....The initial name I had in place years ago was The Frugal Spyder , but we didn't run with that after Sam's arrival.......

I think , depending on final running order , that you will be 70 or 71

68 has just gone to Norwich and the dreaded 68.5 is going to Holland with a 2cv frame next week .....

[Charman.tech]

Agree with all the comments from "micky1mo" "Roadster" & "nike55" she (Orca) is developing into a real beauty!

Wheels have been taxing us, you may have the solution we were thinking wires (powder coated matt black) and then Dunlop replicas as per "D Type" until we saw the prices.

Digging through the old garage, after spending the day working on the new garage, found a beautiful steering wheel identical to the "D Type" photo you posted, that I have had for the last thirty years, used on old projects such as MGB GT and Hawk 289 but saved when they went.

I love finding old treasures we are collecting all the bits we need engine and gearbox from a TR7/8 we did then into the 289 now to relive in the G46.

One problem my wife, Charlie mum, has just cottoned on what we are up to, that old adage comes to mind "It easier to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission up front"

[lancelot link]

GOT A BIT MORE DONE ON THE DEVELOPMENT FRONT....

We are building this example for a customer so , its a case of trying to juggle development and progress...

Patrice wanted side vents and a central bar - as do a few others ....we have been making these individually up to now but decided we needed to standardize a mould...our central bar moulding will fit both this and the original Sammio Spyder....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0227-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0229-3.jpg

The vents Mike has started are nice ....he has ' bevelled ' the edges so they look like they are stamped into Ally or similar....the centres will be opened up slightly to make them look less heavy...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0228-3.jpg

Mike has also been playing with the headlight lenses ...making the apertures and tags for mounting...still a bit to do , but shaping up nicely....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0230.jpg

Tomorrow I am going to start making the plug to mould the half tonneau to cover the passenger seat ....

Patrice wants a single screen (we have already made a full width screen flange and door cap screen flanges to make a full 2 seater screen but until I have the screen itself back from the screen makers , I won't show that ...) so tomorrow , I will start the driver only screen setup as well....

[WorldClassAccident]

I like the idea of the side vents and was wondering about something like this for mine : http://www.museostradale.com/pebble/ferrari250tr60_tail_1959.jpg

I might try and pop down today if that is okay. The wife has moved from "It's a divorce" to "If you are doing it then I want it in blue" so I wouldn't mind another look and getting some measurements.

[Mister Towed]

Yep, I can see the appeal of that look.

Shouldn't cost too much to do, either:

Pop to local supermarket;

Check that nobody's looking;

Steal trolley;

Cut sides off trolley as required;

Bond bits of supermarket trolley onto body-shell to taste.

Should look very, erm... Well, very erm... Very nice? :shock:

[Mister Towed]

'Been thinking about adding a subtle rear spoiler or two to my spyder -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/Picture1.jpg

Quite like that one but I'll probably go with something a bit more striking though... :eusa_liar: :eusa_liar: :eusa_liar:

[WorldClassAccident]

I was just going to buy an original and then break it for spares...

;-)

I quite like this too : http://www.mycarheaven.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/aston-martin-dbr2-side_view.jpg

[Mister Towed]

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, WCA.

As a retired military engineer I really like the function over style of the original 50's race cars - if you take a look at a Lancia D24, for example, it's covered in afterthougt riveted alloy panels where mid-race rolling development has been effected. Take the o/s front wing air inlet above the headlight on the example below: it's clearly been added to cool something under the engine bay way after Pininfarina penned the original shape.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/Lancia_D24_Pinn_Farina_Spyder_1954_APB0111_Pebble-Beach-2008.jpg

To me the massive chrome vents on the concept cars some are posting as inspiration on here look a bit, well, bling. As if they've been designed by professional footballers for professional footballers.

But, when it comes down to it, you pays your money, you takes your choice.

Vive la difference!

[WorldClassAccident]

It was more shape than chrome I was looking for. The three holes in the side are nice are different to what I was envisaging.

Function and form works for me. I am going to be running an MX5 4 pot in there and possibly adding a supercharger a bit later. I want to keep the heat out of the footwells without toasting the engine bay.

I am not looking to make my G46 a tarty show car, just looking at period cars for design cues. The trouble with google images is that they mostly come up with Pebble Beach show cars that have been polished and chromed to within an inch of their life.

If you had seen the result of my first attempt at seat covering I did at the weekend you would realise that anything I build will look 'developed' rather than simply polished.

;-)

I think we do broadly agree in principle, it is just the ggogle images I found were a bit too shiney.

[garyh]

Both beautifully made, better onced raced as the chrome would tarnish and wouldn't look so 'tartish'.
The Lancia D24, i like this and the rivets, obviously how they needed to make it! easier to change a panel if you crash... and it was 1954.:ranger:

[WorldClassAccident]

easier to change a panel if you crash.

Can I rivet glass fibre...

;-)

[garyh]

very carefully:biggrin:

[lancelot link]

Not sure how well these pics will come out but heres some initial work on creating the bulkheads in the body.

The rear one supports the sides and still allows a spare wheel to pass through.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0236-2.jpg

The one midway down nicely doubles up as a stop for the spare wheel and the back of the rear seat area , allowing me to fit a cockpit bulkhead with two hatches , one behind each seat - this means this space can be used to store or carry things....its actually quite a decent size...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0235-2.jpg

I have used 12mm plywood cut to shape ( not too crucial as the use of tiger seal and glassfibre to secure them deals with any gap issues. ) the panels were tacked in place with tiger seal and then strips of glassfibre laid around the edges and along any panel joins...any straggly bits will be trimmed back when cured..

The addition of these bulkheads has already stiffened the car up quite nicely ...add the cockpit one and the under arch / inner panel ones yet to do and the rear end will be as solid as the original Scimitar was....

[WorldClassAccident]

Well I spent the most the day playing/fixing the next donor vehicle.

It is proper scary fast!

[lancelot link]

managed to get a bit done today....

We have produced a mould for the tonneau now and Mike got the first one out this morning...it needs a minor repair but gives you an idea of how it will look.....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0255-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0256-1.jpg

The first picture also shows the nearly finished 'single screen' moulding.
This will be a 3 part mould including side screens for door top and centre bar....

Had a little play this afternoon with an idea I am bouncing around...... A D-Type/ Cunningham style tail fin...not as harsh as the Jag one but influenced by Boat and AERO versions...if I make these they will be a seperate panel with a lipped base that sits on the headrest...secured by tiger seal , rivets etc....would be interested in feedback...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0253-1.jpg

[garyh]

What about the boot, which is obviously a must. Do you make the opening narrower?:icon_confused:

[lancelot link]

no the fin would have to be cut to allow for it to still be removed...if the bootlid is fitted 'pin and latch style' then an extra pin and hole in the tailfin would locate it when boot in place...

[Nike55]

Looks like a natural progression for the Cuningham/Jag boys.

I don't think my SLR version could use the fin as it would get in the way of the airbrake!

[Mister Towed]

Not like you to do things by halves Gary...

Go extreme. Go full D type aero fin extreme!! :party:

[Nick59]

Its looking good Gary.....def think it might be my next winter project after the trailer camper of course :becky:

[HouseMartin]

Fantastically streamlined look with the toneau cover in place. I expect to see a flap and control arm on that fin for extreme cornering. Did it actually have any effect on the original jag? Looks good, but causes compromises with the boot access. Is there height to install a spare wheel inside the head fairing instead? Fantastic work, keep the updates flowing

[jmc14]

Looking good Gary.

[Charman.tech]

Hi Gary

Charlie & I now flat out on the garage construction doors on & glazed, roof tiles going on, inside benches complete and electrics going in, floor tiles, yes floor tiles laid and SE5a chassis moved into work area.

Following threads on a daily basis and loving the development of the G46, or should I say in our case as marked up on the white board.

Sammio G46 V8 Mk 1

love the fin idea how about bonding it to the boot lid so when you take off the boot the fin comes with it, not sure how you fix the pointy end ??????? as if you need further suggestions!


Peter

[lancelot link]

Sammio G46 V8 Mk 1





TUESDAY !!!

[WorldClassAccident]

Gary - Would it be possible to do something like this for my boot?

http://sbarro.perso.neuf.fr/voitures/MilleMiglia_2006/Sbarro_Mille_Miglia_2006_titre.jpg

I plan to have twin head rests so there wouldn't be much room for a boot hatch otherwise.

[Nike55]

I envisage having the same problem - so would be interested to know if it is possible.

That Ferrari V12 powered Sbarro in the pic has taken a few other styling cues from the 1950's Merc SLR. Nice car...

[Mister Towed]

Agreed on the SLR inspired looks of the car pictured. I'm also surprised how much I like the white paint with blue detail.

Sbarro creations haven't always been quite so attractive though...

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/220px-Sbarro_Challenge.jpg

:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:

[WorldClassAccident]

Can't beat him for mad though

http://sbarro.perso.neuf.fr/technique/ram/Sbarro_ram_titre.jpg

[Mister Towed]

Isn't that back wheel just a Zanussi washer/dryer drum with a Halfords plastic wheel trim glued on?

Still, so long as it has just one seat and weighs less than 550kg's you can drive it on a provisional licence, even if it has a Veyron engine in it.

Oh, sorry, wrong thread... :biggrin:

[WorldClassAccident]

I think he went for the designers job at Hot Wheels but never realised they were meant to be scale models.

[lancelot link]

FINALLY GETTING A CHANCE TO MOVE ON WITH THIS TOMORROW....


Feels like nothing has happened but its been fiddly time consuming bits to sort out...
I have been working out the screen mouldings and getting the screen itself moulded and delivered to the screen company.
Patrice wants a single screen , so we have done that first....templates are cut for the full width but nothing cut in plastic yet.

Xmas closures have been a pain but should be picking up the parts tomorrow.

Then I can finish the centre bar , tonneau etc. and get the doors hung.

Then we are looking at prepping body and getting ready for paint etc....

Whoopee !!

I am really looking forward to seeing some colour on this one !

[garyh]

Have you said what it's going to be?:nono:

[Charman.tech]

FINALLY GETTING A CHANCE TO MOVE ON WITH THIS TOMORROW....


Feels like nothing has happened but its been fiddly time consuming bits to sort out...
I have been working out the screen mouldings and getting the screen itself moulded and delivered to the screen company.
Patrice wants a single screen , so we have done that first....templates are cut for the full width but nothing cut in plastic yet.

Xmas closures have been a pain but should be picking up the parts tomorrow.

Then I can finish the centre bar , tonneau etc. and get the doors hung.

Then we are looking at prepping body and getting ready for paint etc....

Whoopee !!

I am really looking forward to seeing some colour on this one !


No you are just scared we will catch you up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we have done a little work tonight, Charlie suggested we clean the every bit of the existing bodywork back to the bulk head, that is the old part of the inner wings which came from the bulk head to the suspension towers, we hope to re shape the bulk head and may be try to ali clad some of it.

We have been talking about doors so it will be of particular interest to see the final solution from looking at it over the last few weeks it has to be external hinges.

Will post a photo of the bulk head tomorrow.

[WorldClassAccident]

Found a double bubble version of the rear end

http://sbarro.perso.neuf.fr/voitures/MilleMiglia_2005/Sbarro_Mille_Miglia_geneve2005.jpg

[Roybo]

Gary - Would it be possible to do something like this for my boot?

http://sbarro.perso.neuf.fr/voitures/MilleMiglia_2006/Sbarro_Mille_Miglia_2006_titre.jpg

I plan to have twin head rests so there wouldn't be much room for a boot hatch otherwise.
have to agree i like the way that boot is done,
getting really interest in this project i've had a scimitar before and it appeals to me,how hard would a different headlight treatment be to do Gary
not knocking the hard work you've done but maybe something like this
http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/03/TojeiroClimax_01_700.jpg

[WorldClassAccident]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0230.jpg

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/03/TojeiroClimax_01_700.jpg

Doesn't look that different to me. What bit are you wanting different, shape, position?

The G46 nose is different from the Spyder

[WorldClassAccident]

Gary - Having just driven 200 miles today with the roof down on the TVR I am looking forward to having the head rests behind me to keep my ears warm.

You say you haven't finished the full width screen yet. How high is it planned compared to the head rest?

Most cars appear to have the top of the screen about the same as the top of the headrest. Having finished my trip with a 'spirited' drive downt he bottom of the A34 and M3 I was thinking how much I appreciated not being hit in the face by the three figure wind blast.

I know you said there were rules about screen height, any chance of either explaining them or posting a link? I might have to work out some way of raising and lowering the seat depending in the speed.

If you could run a tape up from the bottom of the bodywork up to the top of the cockpit and then from the bodywork to the top of the planned screen I could plan what I need for seat/eye protection.

Cheers

Nick

[Mister Towed]

Aren't aero screens just there to deflect the airstream up and over your head while generating minimal drag rather than acting as a conventional windscreen that you look through?

If your sight line goes through the screen rather than over the top you'll need windscreen wipers and washer jets to comply with the construction 'n' use regs and so you can see where you're going if (when!) it rains.

I'm sure a full height screen is a possibility if you can't face getting high velocity wasps and bits of truck tyre carcass in your face, Porsche put one on the RSK in 1960 to create the RS60.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/RS60.jpg

Doesn't spoil the looks imho (although those horrible fog lights do) and will make the car just that bit more practical. I'll be sticking with goggles and a crash helmet though. :peep:

[Roybo]

WCA....thinking more the shape mate ,
although if they were pushed out slightly so as they go down
the sides, and the insides where rounder ala 240z maybe?
, not a biggy just my preference:noidea:
although the covers make a difference

[WorldClassAccident]

Towed = That is why I asked the question. Not sure what rules and regs apply. Don't want to ruin the lines but don't want to hit a pigeon at 120mph without a screen. It has made a mes all over the screen, I hate to think what it would have done to my face, with or without a helmet.

Rotbo - Sort of see what your saying. I had similar questions about the height of the bonnet bulge but they suggested a scoop to hide it which I think should work (Google Lancia D25). Having been there and seen the plastic I don't think there is too much of an issue with the lights.

[Roybo]

Rotbo - Sort of see what your saying. I had similar questions about the height of the bonnet bulge but they suggested a scoop to hide it which I think should work (Google Lancia D25). Having been there and seen the plastic I don't think there is too much of an issue with the lights.

if you've seen it in the flesh 'plastic' then i'll take your word for it as with no paint a photo can be deceiving ,whens the next shows anyways i need to see it close up.
just like to add this is in no way a criticism of the car, just whati'd like to see on the car which obviously means nowt

[Nike55]

I've been pondering screen type/height. Recall the Construction & Use Regulations (1971 et al) used to state that the windscreen could be a max of 6" before wipers were required (latterly demister too?)

I also recall the Regs excluded the wiper requirement and height limit if the screen was made of individual sections i.e. 'Brooklands' type aeroscreens.

Haven't looked for anything definitive in respect of regs recently so look forward to contradiction. Lancelot with his experience should know.

In respect of pigeons - a pigeon hit the windscreen of my Vx Cavalier when driving at a mere 70 mph. The pigeon flew out of a hedge, travelling left to right when we met, so a modest terminal velocity but made a mess of the screen. Have had odd bits of debris / birds hit my cars at varying speeds on and off motorways (including unexpected small tree branches/assorted crap on country lanes).

As a dedicated 'Biker' I've suffered 'foreign object' experiences with everything from being pebble dashed by insects to a plank from a pallet board thrown up at motorway speeds. So full face for me on M-ways and fast A's and maybe open face with goggles (to pose) on others (maybe just baseball cap around town), but will also look to seating position so body not too high and also look at scuttle/aero screen heights.

I've 'ducked' (maybe flinched is a better word) to avoid foreign objects on occasions so not sure if a standard seat belt which allows some upper body movement is not a better bet than a slack racing harness...?

[Mister Towed]

Towed = That is why I asked the question. Not sure what rules and regs apply.

The Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations 1986 Regulation 34 pretty much covers it:

Windscreen wipers and washers
34.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (4) and (5), every vehicle fitted with a windscreen shall, unless the driver can obtain an adequate view to the front of the vehicle without looking through the windscreen, be fitted with one or more efficient automatic windscreen wipers capable of clearing the windscreen so that the driver has an adequate view of the road in front of both sides of the vehicle and to the front of the vehicle.

(2) Save as provided in paragraphs (3), (4) and (5), every wheeled vehicle required by paragraph (1) to be fitted with a wiper or wipers shall also be fitted with a windscreen washer capable of cleaning, in conjunction with the windscreen wiper, the area of the windscreen swept by the wiper of mud or similar deposit.

Once you're looking through the windscreen rather than over it Regulation 31 also kicks in which means the 'screen must be made of safety glass.

Reading the regulations through I wasn't able to find anything regarding the flyscreen being acceptable in perspex, indeed, if you read through Regulation 31 to the end there's a note which says that the term 'windscreen' also includes 'windshields'. Will be doing a bit more research on that one...

[Roybo]

the way i'd read it is, as long as you look over the screen theres no regs as to what the screen should be made of.i think a better term would be wind deflector,
and a lot of '7' type cars use them and go through the iva tests ok

[Charman.tech]

the way i'd read it is, as long as you look over the screen theres no regs as to what the screen should be made of.i think a better term would be wind deflector,
and a lot of '7' type cars use them and go through the iva tests ok

So does that depend on how tall or short you are or the how tall or short the man is carrying out the test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davecymru]

Can you take a cushion? :bolt:

[Mister Towed]

Let's see. Spitfire Macau order form...

Low level flyscreen - check.

Full face helmet - check.

Too tall head fairing - double check.

Plasticine wheel nuts - why not?

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/Macau_goes_wrong_1.jpg

At least it doesn't need windscreen wipers...

[Psycho pops]

Liking the orange parasol, an easy fit I would have thought..

[Mister Towed]

I thought it was an evil killer jellyfish sucking the car up into a parallel universe where too tall head fairings are considered cool...:icon_confused:

[Mister Towed]

the way i'd read it is, as long as you look over the screen theres no regs as to what the screen should be made of.i think a better term would be wind deflector,
and a lot of '7' type cars use them and go through the iva tests ok

Yep, I reckon that's a fair assessment as I couldn't find diddly regarding wind deflectors in the Construction & Use Regs.

I also raised the topic at work today and it was generally agreed that it would be an exceptionally 4nally retentive traffic cop that would even consider stopping you to check if it's legal to drive with a perspex flyscreen. Yer average Beat Bobby just wouldn't give two hoots. :mod:

I did find a link to an MG site that recommended 'shotgun' glasses as essential eyewear when driving without a full windscreen. I'm thinking of using clear industrial safety glasses and a pudding basin TT helmet myself...:nerd: + :tinfoil3:

[Roybo]

So does that depend on how tall or short you are or the how tall or short the man is carrying out the test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
obviously i'd imagine they'd use a bit of common sense.
i'd imagine if the inspector was a dwarf and couldn't see over the steering wheel so therefore could'nt look over the deflector,they'd use an average.
or the 7 ft tall and could put his head out of the sunroof of a transit van,i'd
hope they would use an average,
i know they use a piece of wood from the seat to measure seat belt heights
rather than rely on the height of the inspector

[Mister Towed]

Hmm, common sense in the application of the law you say. That's a novel concept...

[WorldClassAccident]

The bit that I am not sure about is whether I need to worry about IVA, MOT or something else.

If I am just rebodying the TVR then it is no different to the standard Sammio Spyder rebody of the Herald. I don't need IVA, it just has to get through the MOT.

If this is the case, can I have a 'quite tall' wind deflector that might look like a windscreen to the uninitiated? That would have the benefit of stopping the stones and spray in the face without needing wipers etc.

Anyone know what the MOT rules are? If I don't have wipers fitted will it fail because they don't work?

Any thoughts or advice welcome

[Roybo]

Hmm, common sense in the application of the law you say. That's a novel concept...

thats true

[Nike55]

Thanks for clarifying Construction and Use Regs - been a very long time since looked at these..and they have changed.

So you could have a tall-ish screen fitted to a Sammio G46 (like a D-type wrap-around screen) provided you could adequately see over it - hydraulically powered drivers seat then...!

[lancelot link]

Without going over old ground too much - my understanding is basically , you look through a screen and over a deflector.

As far as Mot with a taller screen goes ....you can MOT without a screen at all and fit after the event if you have any doubt....also , the sit upright / extra padding approach can work quite well.

A fixed screen of full height will need wipers and washers , a folding screen like we used to fit on our 1932 Ford Roadster kits ,doesnt need anything , even though you look through it.

The D-Type style screen is probably as large as you would be able to go without wipers , but that screen will be pretty effective.

The G-46 is destined to have side screens to emulate the D-type.

We have made moulds for all the flanges now just waiting for screens to be cut.

[WorldClassAccident]

Cheers Gary I guess the MK1 V8 will get to the screen fitting before me so I will have a look. I want to be able to use the car without a helmet and goggle and still use the motorway.

I know the G46 isn't normally daily driver but I also know that I choose the fun car over the practical too much of the time. I bought the Integra Type R as an occaisional fun car and ended up driving between 30-40,000 miles a year in it for the first three years.

I guess I won't be doing that much in the G46 but it will be used for more than high days and holidays. Turning up as a business consultant in a suit, tie and race helmet might provoke comments from my clients. ;-)

[Mister Towed]

I guess I won't be doing that much in the G46 but it will be used for more than high days and holidays. Turning up as a business consultant in a suit, tie and race helmet might provoke comments from my clients. ;-)

I dunno, I used to sell anti-virus software when I was younger while wearing a helmet to disguise my bald spot.

Never did my sales figures any harm.

Here's a picture of me in my company jumper wearing a lid:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYoZCBSM1jFLR-3xqZ3VFKl3f_A9S-OHBVIhM835NyOgiQnKTNAQ

:eusa_liar:

[Mister Towed]

Here in the Nederland we are finding the crash helmet essential for the wearing.

Especially when going to the shopping for special cigarettes which are being legal...

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/holland.jpg

[WorldClassAccident]

Mr Towed - I didn't know they took that picture of me. Hell of a party the night before...

[garyh]

Thought i would bring the generic thread back to the top:icon_smile:

[PaulC]

Windscreen -v- deflector and IVA.


IF (I'm not sure it's a requirement, might have missed that bit) IVA is required and you're worrying about wipers and demisters could you not trial fit a very small deflector pending the delivery of your larger one which might arrive (ahem) after the inspection has been passed?

Just thinking out loud like :evil:

[WorldClassAccident]

A caravan hair dryer plugged into the fag lighter will be fine...

[redratbike]

just use one of these

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Electric_Demist_Heater_DEMST

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/pub/files/Resources/1292418901_cbs1.png

Description
Now you can have front screen demisting without the hassle of plumbing-in a hot water powered heater.

This neat little unit has a moulded ABS case with an electric fan and a 168 watt 12 volt heater element.

Simply cut a rectangular hole in your dash top and bond the unit underneath (shown below).

IVA compliance may depend upon your particular installation and may require more than one unit. Size 65mm x 193mm x 87mm with swivel base.

ELECTRIC DEMIST HEATER #DEMST

[WorldClassAccident]

Do we need to worry about IVA when we are justr 'adjusting' the body work? I thought we just had to get it through an MOT.

Having said that I am planning on fitting wipers and a heater to mine as there is a risk it will become my daily driver if the wife sticks to her plan to only let me have one sports car and the TVR has to go.

[lancelot link]

Haven't posted here for a while.....mainly because there hasn't been a lot to show...

I have finished the screen mouldings now and gel'd up an example.
Mike will lay a set up for me tomorrow and I can get them fitted.

The doors are going on tomorrow.

The rear internal arches are being glassed onto the body tomorrow.

The recently bought hub adaptors and wire wheels are going on tomorrow as well....

wednesday should see screen fitted....

Everything is angling towards getting the car in the paintshop in the next week or two.....

updates to follow....

[GazDavies]

I'm looking forward to seeing a completed G46 since I visited last week. It looks far better in person than I had seen in any of the photos and I have been having a sneaky look at Scimitars. Just need to convince the wife its a good idea first and get the Spyder finished.

[WorldClassAccident]

Do you still want me to bring my scimiter down to fit the frame and measure it ?
if so, I will try and borrow a trailer and might get it down to you next weekend our early the following week.
If not, I might just come down in the tvr again to pay a deposit and have another look at the G46 you are working on.

[lancelot link]

I'm looking forward to seeing a completed G46 since I visited last week. It looks far better in person than I had seen in any of the photos .


SO AM I !!!

Thank you Gaz....The website pics just don't do the car any justice....it needs some colour !

[Charman.tech]

SO AM I !!!

Thank you Gaz....The website pics just don't do the car any justice....it needs some colour !

Gary

Pleased to see you are making some progress, our builds been very slow with Charlie and I having work fitments, hope to get stuck back in very very soon.

What door hinges did you use in the end?

[BazMason]

SO AM I !!!

Thank you Gaz....The website pics just don't do the car any justice....it needs some colour !

Thanks very much for showing us around last week Gary - it was really good to get an idea of size etc. I know that you were leaning towards red for the colour but how about Ecurie Ecosse blue?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/65426726/Ecurie%20Ecosse/EE%20Resized.JPG

(Maybe that's just my Scottish bias coming out though...:whistle: )

[lancelot link]

Ecosse blue is a great colour .....Patrice wants red and I like red as well.....:biggrin:

Managed to get the car outside today.

Wire wheels are on ....combination of MG adaptors , 4.5'' pcd , drilled out for the larger studs , Jaguar 1/2'' unf wheel nuts to replace the Scimitar sleeved examples and some 15'' MGC wires ( Thanks Dave ) fitted with 165 x 15 front tyres and larger but same radius , 195/65 x 15 rears to fill out the rear slightly...

Doors are hung using Herald boot hinges.

Screen framework has been partially fitted and I started playing with some scrap screen sections to see where we were going.

The new wheels have really changed the car .....heres some pics...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0236-3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0238-2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0239-2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/DSCF0240-3.jpg

screenwork to follow and then its bodywork / paintshop time !!

[Alpha]

Beginning to come together nicely, guys!

I can already hear it thundering down the Hunaudieres straight at Le Mans...

Baz from Brussels

[Nike55]

Fabulous!

[Mister Towed]

Hmm, I just know I'm going to get slated for saying this, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the G46 styling doesn't quite work for me as well as the Spyder does.

I'm expecting it to look much better once the headlights are in and the body painted - just avoid orange with black edged white bands or you'll be hearing from Disney/Pixar's lawyers...

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/orca.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/nemo.jpg

I've got to say I wouldn't have bought a Spyder if Gary had stuck with the 'German' bonnet as that didn't work for me either, but Gary managed to transform the car with the 'Italian' look (imho). I'm sure he'll do the same again with Orca and I look forward to being proved wrong about the styling. :biggrin:

[WorldClassAccident]

Funnily enough the front looks fine to me, the side is a bit heavy though. I am still buying one but thinking of how to split the side view bulk a bit.

SLR eyebrows perhaps and a skirt line between the wheels?

http://wallpapers-diq.org/wallpapers/17/Mercedes-Benz_SLR_Stirling_Moss_Classic_1955.jpg

[Mister Towed]

Funnily enough the front looks fine to me, the side is a bit heavy though. I am still buying one but thinking of how to split the side view bulk a bit.

SLR eyebrows perhaps and a skirt line between the wheels?

http://wallpapers-diq.org/wallpapers/17/Mercedes-Benz_SLR_Stirling_Moss_Classic_1955.jpg

Agreed about the SLR influences, I think I posted something about that on an earlier thread - that it would look great in silver with a three pointed star set into the grille for the 300 SLR look on a budget.

I'm sure Gary will evolve Orca into something stunning but the head-on shot just reminded me of Nemo's Dad so much that I couldn't resist highlighting the similarity.

BTW, your image link doesn't seem to have worked.

[WorldClassAccident]

I can see the image on my screen, guess it must be a permissions thing.

I reckon it looks like a mix of Sbarros Mille Miglia and the SLR, especially the twin hump version I will be getting. Just happen to be a couple of my favorite cars which is good.

[davecymru]

I also prefer the Spyder to the g46, but having seen the g46 in the flesh a few times i do have to say that only a few of those pics do it justice and it does look a lot prettier in the flesh.

But i've also found that with my Spyder where i've posted some pics of my own car on here and thought "does it really look like that?" Then when I check, it turns out that the photos just don't do it justice!

[Mister Towed]

I also prefer the Spyder to the g46, but having seen the g46 in the flesh a few times i do have to say that only a few of those pics do it justice and it does look a lot prettier in the flesh.

But i've also found that with my Spyder where i've posted some pics of my own car on here and thought "does it relay look like that?" Then when I check, it turns out that the photos just don't do it justice!

I thought the pics might have something to do with it. I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh.

[Alpha]

Funnily enough the front looks fine to me, the side is a bit heavy though. I am still buying one but thinking of how to split the side view bulk a bit.

SLR eyebrows perhaps and a skirt line between the wheels?

http://wallpapers-diq.org/wallpapers/17/Mercedes-Benz_SLR_Stirling_Moss_Classic_1955.jpg

Don't think that would work, the bulk you mention is concentrated from the doors backward. Adding detail in front of the doors will only accentuate that, IMHO

We'll need to wait till we see it in paint and fully finished before passing final judgement - I'm sure that will really change the bulk issue as well as the 'Nemo - face' look!

Baz from Brussels

[Roadster]

I was really interested in a G46 and i viewed it a few times.
I agree it looks a little thick set at the side - i was going to fit it to the mx5 but that meant it would have to lose 6" behind the doors.
Ironically i think it would improve the looks - im still tempted haha

Maybe after the "sensible" Roadster i will have a mid life crisis and build one

[lancelot link]

A 6'' shortened rear and a similar amount on the front would really improve the looks ......I agree.

A lot of cars from that era were designed , cockpit to the rear , long bonnet ....

The Spyder doesn't follow that trend , and works ok....

The Cordite will be more rearward due to the Spit donor..

The problems arise when you are restricted by the donor vehicle.....a Herald is a 4 seater - we make it a 2 seater without moving the driver , hence longer tail ....The G46 is based around an estate car !

If there was one thing I could change it would be a shorter rear....I think the 2 hump versions will help with this visually by giving the car more height.

The problem with all the pics of the G46 so far , is that satin white gelcoat has no reflection at all.....it just doesn't show the curves.
The side shot of the car is a curvaceous wing flowing into a nicely humped bonnet behind it , but you can only see mass !!

I ALSO TOOK INSPIRATION FROM THIS CAR ......

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/ferrari-scaglieti-1955_01.jpg

This is a slightly bigger than average Ferrari and the squarer arches were used to make the car obviously different from the Spyder .....I think we need to go with rounder arches to soften the cars looks ...something I will be looking at in the near future...

Of course , the biggest problem is really that IMHO , the Spyder concept is just soo pretty that its a hard one to beat....

( I have got an idea for a special based around the Spyder and Cordite that might beat it though !! )

[AndyP57]

Shot in the dark here Gary (and heading even further off topic) but have you thought of taking the hump off the Spyder, opening the rear body up and retaining 4 seats? Would have to look at the frame and mounting the tank further back but I remember many happy days with my mates in a herald 12/50 convertible back in the 70s ;-)

[WorldClassAccident]

gary - I absolutely agree about how much better the car looks when you can see it for real that in the pictures. I still love it and am still buying one. i am interested in hearing about your plans for the wheel arches. If you can show me what you are thinking I think i would prefer them on mine.

I am sure that when you get it painted most of the comments will disappear.

The limitation of the donor is the length between the door and the rear arch. That to me is the only bit that visually jars with the rest. The idea of losing that length by using a TVR donor was my first plan. Now I am thinking of hiding some of it with air vents for the brakes of something.

Still a thing of beauty. Don't take anything I say as a criticism, it is better than anything else I have looked at.

[Nike55]

Yes, you really do have to see the G46 in the flesh to appreciate the nuances of the design.

The matt tones in the pictures flatten the image somewhat and a good colour paint job, (whether it be Italian Racing Red, German Racing Silver or British Racing Green) will bring out the styling.

Period detailing will only enhance the design..

[Alpha]

Gary, please excuse us for all our comments on the looks of your babies! I can imagine that the criticism hits hard after all the hard work you put into them.

But rest assured that our intentions are only to be constructive.

Looking at what you have been able to come up with to date, we have total faith that once you've finished the G46 and Cordite to your liking, we'll have two more gorgeous cars to look at and dream about :-)

keep up the good work !

Baz from Brussels

[volospian]

Hi guys, noob poster here, but I'm currently restoring an SE5 Scimitar and stumbled across the G46. I've been lurking for a few days reading this thread with interest and just thought I'd post my thoughts.

So.... I think the cockpit is too far forward for my taste. I understand exactly why it's in that position, being based upon the standard scim, and I think it will probably look OK when the car is complete and painted, but for me personally I prefer the "classic" sportscar look of short rear and a long bonnet, al la the 300SLR, C-Type, etc.

However, I'm wondering just how difficult it would be to commission a version where the cockpit has been moved back and the bonnet extended?

It makes the effort worthwhile in my opinion as, for a start, my scimitar is in pieces in the garage at the moment and the body has had a smack in the nose at some time, the roll bars have rotted out (as seems common) and need repairing, and the steel reinforcement tube that runs up the A pillar has rotted out and needs replacing so I'm going to have to do quite a bit of fettling to the existing body to make it suitable if I want to keep it, so cutting the old body off and chopping and shutting the floor pan to move the driver back 6"-10" or so isn't really going to be any more work than I'll already have to do, if you know what I mean.

Secondly, I'm fitting a Rover V8 with 5 speed LT77 'box. From some of the pics I've seen of other conversions, this can be a tight squeeze in the standard engine bay with the crank nose pushed up only millimetres from the steering rack. Moving the seat (and thus the bulkhead) back would also allow me to mount the engine further back, bringing more of the weight into the centre of the car and leaving more room in front to clear the rack, plus more room for a decent rad and perhaps an intercooler (as I'm thinking of a blower..).

I think moving the floor around would require some additional metal in the chassis as the position of the driver relative to the outriggers would move but and you would lose some support but, again, my chassis needs a spot of welding anyway so adding the relevant supporting metal would only be a little more work.

Anyway, I just thought I'd put my 2p in and see what people think...:D

[lancelot link]

Firstly ....thank you for your comments - I take on board all comments , good and bad ...when you work around this stuff all day , you sometimes can get a bit blinkered ..its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....

I could do a shorter tailed , longer bonneted version of the body , its not too bad to do ....the flip front helps.

You would have to chop and section your floorpan , move the bulkhead , lengthen the column etc. but its all do-able....

A body completed to that spec would probably cost about an extra £500.

THE CHASSIS WOULD NEED TO BE LEFT ALONE AND EXTRA BRACING INCORPORATED INTO THE INTERNAL FRAMEWORK....

All do-able and would be a great car....just extra work to get there !!

If I wasn't all spent up on developing as it is , I might have had a go at it !!

Happy to do a one off for someone though !!

[WorldClassAccident]

I might be a volunteer for the long nose prototype. Just found out I have to buy another house so there may be a short pause in my project

[WorldClassAccident]

The screen moved back, the hump moved back and some really bad editing but hopefully you see the basic idea.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lLLWmKz0588/T10j3DlvzcI/AAAAAAAABz8/lC4YBRARGMo/s640/Untitledstretch.png

[WorldClassAccident]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CkeaWKFiMKw/T10mHtdtlEI/AAAAAAAAB0I/VWwNdlcm2zA/s640/Untitledstretch.png

there you go

[Charman.tech]

Gary and all others

Gary said to us when we bought the G46 that everyone would end up being personal no one car the same.

We knew the limitations on the rear quarter when viewed from the side, incidentally ours is in a dark blue gel coat and does look a lot less bulky.

After lots of deliberation Charlie and I are incorporating the following. but did not want to say anything until we had got the work under-way.

1. We are setting the doors back 200mm cutting and refitting both front and rear bulk heads whilst leaving the centre section of the cill in place.

2. Forming round wheel arches.

3. Fixing the front end solid and cutting in a bonnet.

4. Square of the back end like a sbarro

5. As we are using the V8 having the exhaust exposed running down each side in a recessed cill under the door sections only

It's all ambitious, but we will get there and certainly no comment on Gary's design, without Gary's inspiration we would not be able to make what I hope will be improvements to suit our taste.

Lots of sports cars have this long wheel base ie series 111 E type.

So we hope to:

1. increase the focal length between the back of the front wheel arch to the door. decrease the focal length of from the rear of the door to the front of the rear wheel arch

2. Put the drivers bum nearer to the rear axel.

3. Smooth the side by loosing the bonnet shut lines.

4. Reduce the focal height between the under side of the door and the cill.

The car is all marked up with lines and where to cut, finished rebuilding the front suspension to day so it's now sitting on its wheels.

We are using a set of 15" 205 x 70 series 111 E type wire wheels. With the rover v8 and gear box in place it sits very high I think we are going to need to reduce the coil overs from 15" down to about 10" and have some softer springs.

Gary's last photo shot is more where we hope to be, will post some photos as soon as we have done the surgery.

[Roadster]

i like your plan"Chairman"
I can't wait until a Sammio gathering when can get these all together.

All kitcars are different built to the builders personal taste - but in recent years this has started to be paint and wheels. If you look at the big club displays at Stoneleigh.

Garry's cars are different he provides a basic starter kit at a price that allows us to get creative and build as we think. I can't imagine a Cordite being built by a man following a build manual.

When we all get together with all our variations it will baffle anybody who doesn't know the marque.

What are you going to take to the shows this year Garry?
Are you going to Detling this year?

[volospian]

After lots of deliberation Charlie and I are incorporating the following. but did not want to say anything until we had got the work under-way.

1. We are setting the doors back 200mm...

2. Forming round wheel arches.

3. Fixing the front end solid and cutting in a bonnet.

5. As we are using the V8 having the exhaust exposed running down each side in a recessed cill under the door sections only

It's all ambitious, but we will get there and certainly no comment on Gary's design, without Gary's inspiration we would not be able to make what I hope will be improvements to suit our taste.


This sounds exactly what I have been thinking. I have mocked up a really bad photochop of pretty much that picture (although I'm thinking of both exhausts exiting down one side in a similar vein to the C-Type). I would like dual "headrest" humps too as I really like the look of 722. I have flattened off the bonnet a bit and straightened the bottom sill lines too...

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=6013b70cec119f4d&resid=6013B70CEC119F4D!138&parid=6013B70CEC119F4D!135&authkey=!AOaE6UTypEYcMvI

I can only load it up to skydrive at the moment, so it won't embed. The link should work though...

[garyh]

Looks great, I like the side pipes

[volospian]

Firstly ....thank you for your comments - I take on board all comments , good and bad ...when you work around this stuff all day , you sometimes can get a bit blinkered ..its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....

I could do a shorter tailed , longer bonneted version of the body , its not too bad to do ....the flip front helps.

You would have to chop and section your floorpan , move the bulkhead , lengthen the column etc. but its all do-able....

A body completed to that spec would probably cost about an extra £500.

THE CHASSIS WOULD NEED TO BE LEFT ALONE AND EXTRA BRACING INCORPORATED INTO THE INTERNAL FRAMEWORK....

All do-able and would be a great car....just extra work to get there !!

If I wasn't all spent up on developing as it is , I might have had a go at it !!

Happy to do a one off for someone though !!

Well, that's very interesting news :D

TBH I was expecting it to be a lot more than that. I don't mind the extra work from my end and don't even mind making some minor mods myself once I have the main body (such as potentially cutting in a bonnet, for example). Plus my next door neighbour used to make car bodies for a living and has a sideline of making aluminium odds and ends from his garage (having a neighbour with a plasma cutter, english wheel and a sheet folder in his garage comes in handy!), so I do have some assistance if required. And as I said in my first post, I have plenty of work cut out if I even wish to keep the existing body so it's not that different.

I wasn't sure about the chassis, I was just assuming it would need support and that would have to be past of the chassis. I take it from your caps that welding in additional supports could be seen as modifying the chassis and raise issues regarding SVA, or something?

Well, I think I may have found a way forward on this one then...:roll:

[Charman.tech]

This sounds exactly what I have been thinking. I have mocked up a really bad photochop of pretty much that picture (although I'm thinking of both exhausts exiting down one side in a similar vein to the C-Type). I would like dual "headrest" humps too as I really like the look of 722. I have flattened off the bonnet a bit and straightened the bottom sill lines too...

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=6013b70cec119f4d&resid=6013B70CEC119F4D!138&parid=6013B70CEC119F4D!135&authkey=!AOaE6UTypEYcMvI

I can only load it up to skydrive at the moment, so it won't embed. The link should work though...

That is it exactly!!!!!!!!! but the exhausts will be set back under the door cill and only exposed under the door so they will turn within the front wing, when you see that space within the cill in the flesh there is plenty of room to do that.

The way we are doing this is to slice the G46 bulk head do the middle side to side leaving one part where it is and the other part re-positioned 200mm further back.

We will also form a vertical bulk head in ply with a top going back to the metal frame where we will re-position the pedal box. If you look at my early posts under G46 V8 Mk1 you will see how tight the V8 sits and how difficult it will be the get the rear two cylinders exhaust pipes in, this goes some way to improving this. I don't think you could set the engine much further back than we have done. (front pulley millimetres from the steering rack) without cutting the existing bulk head to render it useless.

The balance in the position we have must end up nearly 50/50 back and front.

Not sure how you are going to get both sets of exhaust down one side?

Also when we form the bonnets (don't know how yet) we may also take a bit of height out of it as well.

Love the photo mock up.

Now back to work

[volospian]

I take on board all comments , good and bad ...its good to hear other peoples takes on it.
I appreciate honesty , its important to get the cars right....


PS. Just to let you know some other feedback... The wife and I were having dinner with some friends on Saturday and us men (after retiring to the smoking room for a cigar and brandy, naturally ;)) got around to discussing the G46 (he's currently doing a body off resto of a GT6). He thinks it looks great as it is and reminds him of the Rover Turbine race cars, and mid engined racers, etc. He said it has real presence and gave you the big thumbs up. :D

[volospian]

That is it exactly!!!!!!!!! but the exhausts will be set back under the door cill and only exposed under the door so they will turn within the front wing, when you see that space within the cill in the flesh there is plenty of room to do that.

The way we are doing this is to slice the G46 bulk head do the middle side to side leaving one part where it is and the other part re-positioned 200mm further back.

We will also form a vertical bulk head in ply with a top going back to the metal frame where we will re-position the pedal box. If you look at my early posts under G46 V8 Mk1 you will see how tight the V8 sits and how difficult it will be the get the rear two cylinders exhaust pipes in, this goes some way to improving this. I don't think you could set the engine much further back than we have done. (front pulley millimetres from the steering rack) without cutting the existing bulk head to render it useless.

The balance in the position we have must end up nearly 50/50 back and front.

Not sure how you are going to get both sets of exhaust down one side?

Also when we form the bonnets (don't know how yet) we may also take a bit of height out of it as well.

Love the photo mock up.

Now back to work

I think I know what you mean with the pipes...

I was assuming that I would pull the entire bulkhead back, sort of chop (most of) the rear footwell out and rebond the entire front of the floor pan to the back, if you see what I mean. That way the entire section would come back several inches, giving more room for the engine... Although TBH I haven't actually considered exactly how this would work, I just lay on the floor under the body yesterday looking at how the mouldings line up with the chassis and wondering what would happen if I chopped some out :D

I'm not really sure how to do a single side exit either, but I was thinking of TVR Chimaera style forward exit manifolds into a single (or twin) system, then running that single (or twin) pipe back past the engine, etc and out one side... or it may end up being two pipes exiting on one side, like a 300SLR. Again, it's only a thought at the moment with aesthetics outweighing practicality ;)

[lancelot link]

Yes Volo , you need to be very careful about chassis mods ....it can change the game somewhat.

Thanks for the positive stuff guys and the reworkings are really interesting....

shortening pans , moving bulkheads , lengthening steering columns , moving engines etc. is all extra work but none of it is too horrendous....the crucifixal chassis makes life very simple in comparison with other examples and it would be game over on a monocoque...

I love the flexibility of these concepts and the fact that everyone is putting in their views and bouncing ideas about is great.....bit like an online garage night !!

I have soo many ideas it just isn't possible to do them all......yet !!

My demonstrator for this year will start off as a Cordite bodied Spitfire chassis to show that the Cordite package works and to get the all important pictures for press and website etc....once we have done that I have a sort of plan to build a bit of a Mongrel ....mixing up the Cordite and Spyder and incorporating bits from both cars on one demonstrator to try and cater for both kits.....

[WorldClassAccident]

I have been thinking about the 'moving the cabin back' idea. I think it will look better and am happy to act as the guinea pig for Gary's restyle.

I was just wondering what happens to the gear stick?

If it stays where it is I will need to reach behind the heater vents to change gear which might prove challenging. I guess we could fit some king of swan necked gear stick but what are your thoughts?

[volospian]

I'm intending to move the engine and gearbox backwards. It's also going to be a rover v8 which is longer than the essex and it will be bolted to an lt77 box, which is again longer than the standard scimitar box, so I don't think I'll have any issues with gear stick placement if I moved the cockpit back.

[Nike55]

That's the interesting bit .. move one thing and and you have a domino effect...

WCA - would it not be possible to arrange a remote shifter, using a couple of small U-J's and some rod?

Having read the recent threads I've had a complete change of thought and rather than trying to impose Merc SLR or Ferrari 401S dna onto Gary's design, I'm looking forward to completing mine as a totally 'standard' G46! Strange it took me so long to get that.

[WorldClassAccident]

nike - draw me a picture please, i can't understand words.

Not looking to impose any look on the G46. i love it. Just thinking of longer doors and bonnet like my bad paint picture might be nice. Still at the bare chassis. It is easier to change my mind now then when the body is on

[Nike55]

No criticism intended - each to their own - Gary's design is a canvas to interpret as one may. IMHO I think it will be rather nice to run an original, unmolested G46 - it will also be worth more when it becomes a classic ;)

Sorry for delay re piccy, have been ploughing through the kit car mags to find a photo I saw. A guy had put together a gear lever extension using two small universal joints, rod end bearings and a length of rod - all chromed. The result was quite pretty - in a nice, 'race engineering-on-display' kind of way.

There is something shown that's less fancy at gearboxman.co.uk (sorry can't seem to do link thingy) which should give an idea.

http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/images/QBE69G.jpg


Could use 'rose joints' ('rod end bearings' if you prefer) as well, or as an alternative, to dial out some of the play.

Car Builders Solutions website has both in its on line catalogue :

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Gear_Linkage_Universal_Joint_Short_Version_UJGS

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/search,b.html?q=Rod+end

[Mister Towed]

If the distance that you need to make up isn't too great you could always angle the gear lever back towards the driver in the style of the Alfa Duetto, amongst others. This means you'll have an up/down gearchange instead of backwards/forwards but it'll look right for the period.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z371/dmonebillion/654_436_alfa-romeo-duetto-spider-1314757808-2687.jpg

[Nike55]

Should point out that the gearbox picture (seems to be) an automatic, as I can't see any way of laterally moving the lever - hence the need for a UJ or two.

It just illustrates an idea..

http://www.marreyt-classics.com/Stockfotos/48MPHF3.jpg


Lots of other people in same boat.. here's a link to another site indicating a solution...

http://www.dwjenkins.plus.com/gear_extend.htm

[WorldClassAccident]

I haven't been down the garage since the comments about moving the cab backwards because of work commitments. Finally last night I had a proper look at the scimi gear box and stick. Guess what, the gear stick sits on a bracket with rods connecting it to the actual changing mechanism.
All I need to do is move the bracket back and lengthen the rods. easy.

[Nike55]

WCA That's very interesting - I haven't seen a photo of a Scim without the transmission tunnel in place showing the gear lever linkage. (As mine is with Gary for re-bodying). I'm going to have to lengthen mine a bit too so interested to see how you get on.

I was toying with the idea of cutting down the square tunnel and giving it a more rounded profile in sheet alloy, leaving the gear lever and workings on display (just for looks), but that might weaken the floor pan as I presume it is a one piece moulding across the car.

[WorldClassAccident]

I will post some detailed pictures of the gearbox and linkage up over the weekend

[andrewhush]

I haven't been down the garage since the comments about moving the cab backwards because of work commitments. Finally last night I had a proper look at the scimi gear box and stick. Guess what, the gear stick sits on a bracket with rods connecting it to the actual changing mechanism.
All I need to do is move the bracket back and lengthen the rods. easy.
This may be of interest to scimitar gearbox users.

http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/~donkennedy/GearLever/GearLink.htm

[volospian]

I have a scimitar 'box in the garage. I was going to put it on ebay, but if someone wants to pick out up I don't mind donating it to someone as a guinea pig for modding... For the greater good!

[Nike55]

Thanks andrewhush - bookmarked!

[lancelot link]

I have been thinking about the 'moving the cabin back' idea. I think it will look better and am happy to act as the guinea pig for Gary's restyle.


WCA ....I wouldn't hold out too much hope at the moment ....I appreciate the offer but my workload is just massive right now , finding it very hard to sleep , so much going on in my head.......

The Cordite and Spyder variables I am working on right now are keeping me and Mike very busy.....I have a couple of turn keys to produce , general kit production is very nearly full time as well.......

I wouldn't take the current G46 out of production ...a straight forward body swap is always a popular option for people and I think its a pretty car , so producing a new body to fit a modified Scimitar floorpan would be quite a bit of work and a dearer build ....time and money just aren't there right now......

[WorldClassAccident]

Not a problem Gary. As i said, i think the G46 is beautiful as it is.

Can the humps be supplied separately to the body?

Just thinking that if they were separate I could either bond them in place as you intend or I could chop a section out behind the door to move the back of the cabin closer to the wheel arches and then put the humps on. then there is the effect that has on the frame work.. then there is the...

No wonder you are having trouble sleeping. I think I might come down with the deposit next week (or maybe the week after) to have another look and try to work out the options. At least that way you get some cash for all the efforts you are making.

[GazDavies]

After seeing the G46 for the second time earlier this week I am now having a real look for a Scimitar donor. I had only seen the car on the sammio webite pictures before buying the Spyder and didnt think too much of it but when you see it in person you soon realise that the pictures just dont do it any justice. Im not interested in changing it (although I think the rounder wheel arches that Gary mention earlier would look very good!) and Im sure that once it has color on it the lines will show much better.

[Nike55]

Yes, you really do have to see G46 'in the flesh' to appreciate the concept - the pics available, IMHO do not convey the sleekness or the balance of the design.

Gary must have been inspired when he created this model.

[lancelot link]

Yes, you really do have to see G46 'in the flesh' to appreciate the concept - the pics available, IMHO do not convey the sleekness or the balance of the design.

Gary must have been inspired when he created this model.

THANK YOU....

I cannot take all the credit ....I had an idea and it wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for Mike and his input...he has very definitely been involved in the final design.....

[Nike55]

......Gary and Mike must have been inspired when they created this model

(sorry Mike!)

[WorldClassAccident]

I have been on the train up and down to London a lot recently so have had plenty of time to look at pictures. i have spent some of the time comparing proportions to see how far forward and back the cockpits are.

The conclusion in the end is....


.... the G465 is absolutely bang on the money!

I have compared the proportions to about a dozen other period cars and the distance between the back of the car and the back of the cabin is within 5% of all the ones I most like. This probably explains why I like it so much every time I actually see it.

Conclusion : The photos don't do it justice.


Round the wheel arches and show the rear curve line and...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TEGiziMzyPg/T213pRPcvJI/AAAAAAAAB0s/Q-0SIdjenDU/s589/G46%2520CHANGES.jpg

Gary - stop sitting around doing nothing and get the car painted and some proper pictures taken ;-)

[phil9]

round is best

[garyh]

I like the 'round' too. It looks like the Aston Martin Zagato that we had pics of on forum. garyh

[The 1958 Rocker]

I agree, I think round is best but don't tell my wife!!
Can see why WCA likes the car and the redo of the photo does look good. Think I will have to leave it there as it took me long enough to get where I am today (peniless!!!) don't think i should be looking at another car when the bank (wife) says I am close to my overdraught already,
All the best, looks nice, Simon

[WorldClassAccident]

I think the round looks better, certainly better than my earlier efforts at moving the cab back. It is also a lot less work for me. ;-)

The biggest improvement was achieved by simply emphasizing the rear curve which is already there but you can't see in the photo.

[lancelot link]

WCA ...Are we seeing you today ?

If so , I better go to work !!

Chris from Romsey is popping in this morning to collect some dropped pans...

[The 1958 Rocker]

We regularly have dropped pans at our house, but thats another thing. Seriously though, do the pans help with regards additional choice for seats etc,
Simon

[WorldClassAccident]

Hi - won't make it down today - sorry.

Bank manager / wife looking over my shoulder right at the moment.

[lancelot link]

We regularly have dropped pans at our house, but thats another thing. Seriously though, do the pans help with regards additional choice for seats etc,
Simon

Yes ...taller seats are an option and if you are 5'10'' or above , it stops the need to slouch in the car as the bodies aren't very deep...

I did initially work with making the bodies deeper on the first car ...but it looked wrong...so stuck at this height.

When I first started the project , I used the remains of an old Ford Special as a starting point - something to build on. I increased the body depth by about 4-5'' at that time , can you imagine just how shallow they must have been ? I reckon with the body on a Pop chassis , you would be able to see the drivers knees !!

[The 1958 Rocker]

Yes I've increased my body depth by 4-5" in the last few years and must agree it hasn't helped with my posture either. I do remember a friend had a Ford special years ago and that was like being a kid driving a pedal car that was too small for him. Looks the way to go, especially as I am five foot eleven (was taller but old age is creeping in) and my son is six one/two bless him.

[Mister Towed]

Going back to the G46 styling, I agree with the others - the round arches dramatically improve the looks imho.

[lancelot link]

Heres what I started with ....the roof height gives a clue to how shallow the car was and when sat in , your head still touches the top !!

I still have the roof if anyone wants it.....You can see elements of Sammio in the body but we have changed every panel , repositioned cockpit , etc etc etc...3 months of my unpaid time to create the first bodies and then about 6 weeks of Mikes and my time to create the ones we offer now !!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/nickri4-1.gif

[lancelot link]

Gary - stop sitting around doing nothing and get the car painted and some proper pictures taken ;-)

Sorry - will get right on it .....:biggrin1:

Maybe another firm order is whats needed to get me inspired ...........:biggrin1:

[AndyP57]

You didn't have a hand in the design for the Multipla did you Gary ? :party:

No roof for me. As I'm 6'2" and my lad is 6'8" it would look so far out of proportion (In fact I'm not even sure he'd fit into the Spyder already.

[The 1958 Rocker]

Hi Gary, I'm on the case. Will pop down the local Spar shop and mass buy some lottery tickets. If I win, the mansion will go on hold until I have placed my order!! Seriously, if I did win agood bit, I would be looking at a minimum of three to four kits. Lots of ideas crashing round in my head at present.

[The 1958 Rocker]

Hi Andy, yeah, I work for a Nissan/Renault dealer and if you saw some of the "concept" cars they come out with, I am sure Nicole, Papa and a few others have been on something illegal between advert shoots!!!

[Mister Towed]

Heres what I started with ....the roof height gives a clue to how shallow the car was and when sat in , your head still touches the top !!

I still have the roof if anyone wants it.....You can see elements of Sammio in the body but we have changed every panel , repositioned cockpit , etc etc etc...3 months of my unpaid time to create the first bodies and then about 6 weeks of Mikes and my time to create the ones we offer now !!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/nickri4-1.gif

Erm, interesting styling. I can see now how a roof can seamlessly flow into the Spyder's rear wings...

:icon_confused: Are you sure you haven't just photoshopped the roof from a Consul Capri onto a Sammio bodyshell?

[WorldClassAccident]

Wages clear at the end of the month Gary. You are the top of the list.

[lancelot link]

Erm, interesting styling. I can see now how a roof can seamlessly flow into the Spyder's rear wings...

:icon_confused: Are you sure you haven't just photoshopped the roof from a Consul Capri onto a Sammio bodyshell?

UNFORTUNATELY NOT ....I think inspiration clearly came from late 50's /early 60's Ford though....1959 Lincoln , 105E Anglia , Consul Classic etc.

I agree I think the rounded arches may be the way to go....it will give the car a sleeker look.....we had our reasons for square and Mike thinks it still looks best but I am leaning towards rounded ala Spyder....

WCA - no worries , just teasing - when you're ready Mate ....I know exactly how budgeting works !

[WorldClassAccident]

.I know exactly how budgeting works !

I wish I did...

[Patton]

Whats budgie'in? and will my bird mind, right back to the garage to find my new brake light switch.........

[The 1958 Rocker]

WCA, the only person that really understands budgeting is a woman. You you know one for you, two for me. No we cannot afford that this month, walking past in a dress that you've never seen before but dare not say anything in case you just forgot!!!

Gary's roof looks like a Ford 105E anglia with the mother of all air bags just gone off. Think the balance is nearly there? Mmmmm bit more photo shop work methinks.

[phil9]

the roof is not the best, as for g46 round the way to go

[WorldClassAccident]

Not great at pictures but here is the G46 with twin humps and a windscreen. Sort of what I am aiming at. Front side repeater with line leading to the exit vents should reduce the hieght

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2ifMaZ4-zvk/T2-MlsqjxaI/AAAAAAAAB30/uX4h5zRru7M/s912/Angle.png

Will play tomorrow with the roof and possibly gullwing windows

[garyh]

'gullwing doors'... is this just to have something different? The side detail light and vent, how are you doing it? painted, raised bit of filler or some metal work? garyh.

[WorldClassAccident]

Gull wing doors/ windows - yes, something different but also thinking about how a roof would work when there are fixed side windows. With the top on you would need to have some windows attached to the roof to cover the gap between the roof and the side screens. Gull wings would flap down over the top of the side screens. The cut into the roof would also give better access when getting in and out. If it happend to look like a Merc SLR then I can live with that. Not sure I will do it to be honest though

Side stripe will be raised. Not sure if a metal strip or with filler. It should lower the front while allowing a side repeater to blend in a bit.

[garyh]

are there any cars with fly screens that have worked out how to add a roof and addititional screen... or would it be easier to have a spare screen that is taller to bolt on?

[WorldClassAccident]

I am going for a permanent windscreen. I am paranoid about being hit in the fact by a pheasant. I have had three screen strikes before and don't want to wear a helmet all the time.

[Mister Towed]

Came across these Cobra seats from Westfield on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320872853472?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

At 59cm high,53cm across the back,58cm long and with a 44cm wide base they're just too big to fit the Spyder cockpit, but might just fit in an Orca. They are new and have runners fitted and Westfield say they will accept £190 a pair including delivery which looks like bl:):)dy good value to me.

[lancelot link]

are there any cars with fly screens that have worked out how to add a roof and addititional screen... or would it be easier to have a spare screen that is taller to bolt on?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/lancelotlink/Porsche_550_Spyder_1956_PBC0704_Monterey_2010.jpg

[Mister Towed]

I have a feeling that's just a shade to stop the upholstery fading in the California sunshine. :flame:

[lancelot link]

Whatever it is ....its odd.

Its not one of your photoshopped pics is it WCA ? !! :biggrin:

[WorldClassAccident]

My MS Paint jobs aren't THAT bad!

Anyway, I am now working on the idea of a canvas top that can be stored in the space within the humps.

[volospian]

Can I just ask if any of the existing G46 builders are near Leicestershire/Derbyshire/Notts area? I really need to see one of these so I can sleep at night instead of staying awake thinking about what might be...

LL, what's the (rough) lead time on delivery on an order? And what if I wanted some factory mods?

[patoune]

Hi Gary,

I am waiting for some news !... A long time now without any.

Regards
Patrice

[Nike55]

Yes Gary, how's Orca doing...?? :)

[lancelot link]

PATRICE , EMAILED YOU ....Nike , just about too !!

[Nike55]

Hi Lancelot,

Don't worry about email, I appreciate you are probably working 25/8 i.r.o Stonleigh, so see you there for a chat instead....

Cheers :0

[lancelot link]

Can I just ask if any of the existing G46 builders are near Leicestershire/Derbyshire/Notts area? I really need to see one of these so I can sleep at night instead of staying awake thinking about what might be...

LL, what's the (rough) lead time on delivery on an order? And what if I wanted some factory mods?

AT PRESENT ABOUT 6 WEEKS ...Should become a bit less after the current backlog....

factory mods , no problem....would need to talk them through first , but nearly anything is possible !!

[HouseMartin]

[QUOTE=lancelot link;28755]AT PRESENT ABOUT 6 WEEKS ...Should become a bit less after the current backlog....

Gary,
I know this is jumping the gun a bit, but have you managed to locate a chasis number on orca for the V627/1 form ?

[Jerome]

Interesting topic. When i saw the G-46 I don't like the back, its way to high in my opinion. I'm sure that with a couple of adjustments the car can be look great!
Is it needed that the body is so high or can it lay down to the wheel arches? If the body line can be lower it looks a lot more aerodynamic.
Here a simple example what bigger wheel (arches) can do.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5/CITROnerd4ever/klein.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5/CITROnerd4ever/groot.jpg

Maybe some inspiration?
Very expensive 'kit car' from Holland named "the Huet Brothers'. Same idea, only a different price class ;)
http://www.klassiekerrally.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/P4123837-600x450.jpg

[WorldClassAccident]

The hump in the G46 looks much better integrated than the one on the Huet.

You are not the first to spot the difference changing the wheel arches will make:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TEGiziMzyPg/T213pRPcvJI/AAAAAAAAB0s/Q-0SIdjenDU/s589/G46%2520CHANGES.jpg

[AndyP57]

Hi, Apart from the rounded wheel arches, mentioned a few times here, I think what you are looking at is more a modification to the donor's suspension set up.

Imaging a Spyder with the original Herald setup using small wheels, no lowering block on the rear and 'to taste' lowering at the front. It would look a lot different and it shows how such tweaking can change the overall stance of the vehicle.

I've not looked at the Scimitar suspension geometry but I could lay odds that there would be some way to lower the rear and get just about the look you want without changing anything on the standard moulded shell.

[volospian]

Jerome, the trouble is that your wire frame drawing is angled according to the original photo. If you straighten the vehicle up the back doesn't look high (to me anyway). If anything the "hump" appears too high.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=6013b70cec119f4d&resid=6013B70CEC119F4D!140&parid=6013B70CEC119F4D!135&authkey=!AHI2ApOfuePe2gw

Also, if you replaced the wheels with ones as large as you have drawn, you would need to find something off a 30's Bentley or something. They'd be massive. I have pasted one against the original drawing here

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=6013b70cec119f4d&resid=6013B70CEC119F4D!139&parid=6013B70CEC119F4D!135&authkey=!ACpGqW8M3FfJa3U

Sorry about the links, but I only have access to Skydrive from here, and that doesn't embed properly

[WorldClassAccident]

Andy - I agree. I have spent a lot of time trying to work out exactly why the G46 looks so good when stood in front of it yet a bit bloated in the photos. My conclusion is that the flat white colour in the pictures hide the curves and lines.

If you look at the dark one in Charman.tech's thread it looks a whole lot better, even before he started cutting it about.

[Mister Towed]

I'm really liking the wheels and the arches on that Huet.

Yes, I like the wheels and the arches. Mmmm, the wheels and the arches are really nice.

It's just a shame that the rest of it is a bit, well, fugly?

[volospian]

I'm really liking the wheels and the arches on that Huet.

Yes, I like the wheels and the arches. Mmmm, the wheels and the arches are really nice.

It's just a shame that the rest of it is a bit, well, fugly?

I don't mind the rear wings...

[Mister Towed]

I don't mind the rear wings...

Okay, each to their own but I felt the whole design was rather bulbous and bloated compared to the Sammio Spyder. A bit Pilsbury dough boy compared to Gary's elegant greyhound. Not that I think Gary's creation looks like a dog. Or an American bus. I was just searching for something sleek, fast and easy to picture. :tape:

[AndyP57]

Yup. Fugly it is (You could make a water feature out of those lower 'eyelids') and some quirky statements in the sales blurb too such as 'The Aluminium dashboard is full of instruments'

But, for those looking at designs for an eventual hard top, they do have a nice line which could (on paper) graft onto a Sammio body here:
http://www.huetbrothers.com/Experience/the_car.php

[Jerome]

Volospian, yeah I know.
Thats the reason why I'm asked if the body can lower or is the subframe from the Scimitar so high? If the body can be dropped a bit like this. ;)

before:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5/CITROnerd4ever/klein.jpg

After:
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj5/CITROnerd4ever/klein2-1.jpg

I don't know if this is possible with the donor car?

[redratbike]

I'm sure that with a couple of adjustments the car can be look great!

Maybe some inspiration?
Very expensive 'kit car' from Holland named "the Huet Brothers'. Same idea, only a different price class ;)
http://www.klassiekerrally.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/P4123837-600x450.jpg

think you have hit the nail on the head..the cost ..Garys G46 bodyshell is cheap enough to nmodify yourself as seen by some of the guys building them if you dont like it...mod it..its only fibreglass and filler :-) you wouldnt do it to a 60-80k Huet car but one costing less than 2k go for it

managed to dig some info up on the Huet car though

Regulars here at Autoblog may have caught the HB Special we reported on two weeks ago. The retro roadster, inspired classic by the Le Mans and Mille Miglia racers of the 1950's, was created by Dutch brothers Tino and Paul Huet, who intended to produce a limited quantity exclusively for use on their European classic motoring rallies. But demand for the unique HB Special grew to such an extent that the Huet Brothers have decided to put it into limited production.

Based on a modified Triumph TR6 chassis, the HB Special uses the British roadster's original straight six, but bored out from 2.5- to 2.7-liter and fitted with new Honda pistons. Buyers can choose between three versions, with 160 or 180 hp or a supercharged version pumping out over 210 ponies. Buyers will also get the opportunity to specify from a wide range of options, from color and interior trim to a limited slip differential. The Huets plan on producing an initial run of five units, with a maximum of ten vehicles per year depending on demand. Prices start at €67,000 for the 160hp model and range up to €80k for a fully-optioned supercharged version. We've added a handful of new images to our high-resolution gallery of the HB Special, so check it out, along with the press release after the jump.


Related GalleryHuet Brothers HB Special
[Source: Huet Brothers]
PRESS RELEASE

Limited number of HB Specials for sale in 2009

Netherlands, 13 januari 2009

Since de launch of the HB Special in 2007 the Dutch Huet Brothers have had numerous requests of potential buyers to, next to the original concept, build a limited run of HB Specials for sale.

Huet Brothers have decided to adhere to this request and offer a possibility to order a HB Special. The HB Special is inspired by Lemans racers of the 50's and specifically designed for sporty drivers. The body of the car is made from Carbon fibre and the cockpit of aluminium. The car is based on a modefied Triumph TR6 chassis. The engine is upgraded to 2.7 litres and gets Honda pistons. There will be a choice between 3 versions, 160 hp, 180 hp and a 210+ hp supercharged HB special.

Production starts in the beginning of 2009. Clients wil be part of the building process and will have numerous options to choose from. Apart from your standard options like colors, LSD and overdrive you can choose different style seating, steering wheels and all sorts of customizable items.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/01/huet-gulf-colors.jpg

LOOKS BETTER FROM THE REAR
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/huet-brothers-hb-special-007_100191089_m.jpg
http://img.alibaba.com/img/news/10/00/37/76/1231133426461_us_backyard1_1409.jpg

[WorldClassAccident]

I am sure if you dropped £60K on Gary's lap he would make the wheel arches round for you and probably even give you a steering wheel of your choice!

Please don't give Gary any ideas about raising the price before I sell my TVR so I can pay for the kit as it is!

[HouseMartin]

I don't mind the rear wings...

I may be stating the obvious, but it seems the G46 is a 550 rear end with a sammio spyder bonnet.

I was sure I had seeen the rear before but this picture confirms it.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/rumplecottage/g46rear.jpg

So moving the seats and the doors is the wrong strategy. It is the engine that needs moving - mid mounted v6 in the rear passenger seats!

[Roadster]

I may be stating the obvious, but it seems the G46 is a 550 rear end with a sammio spyder bonnet.

I was sure I had seeen the rear before but this picture confirms it.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg575/rumplecottage/g46rear.jpg

So moving the seats and the doors is the wrong strategy. It is the engine that needs moving - mid mounted v6 in the rear passenger seats!

Im sure Garry will confirm this but i don't think the G46 has a 550 rear

In the infancy of the G46 i visited on numerous occassions - i was intending to shorten a G46 to fit an MX5 chassis, Back then it was just foam, filler and the twinkle in Garry and Mikes eyes.
I ended up with a 550 rear clam on the roadster - it is hugely diferent in width,length,height the haunches of the G46 are huge compared to the 550.

I still think the mx5 G46 is viable and less work than the project that im building - and much less work than Chairman's G46. Imagine a G46 with 6 inches removed from between the rear wheel arch and the door.