MadaboutKitcars

Took the opportunity to test drive a Z3 today, the first BMW of any kind I've ever driven.

It was a 2 litre straight six with low miles (74k) on a 'V' plate and in pretty good condition.

I was looking forward to the drive as I've only heard good things about the BMW M52 six (unlike the M44).

So, imagine an engine that starts on the button and settles to an offbeat idle that hints at great things to come.

Imagine an engine that picks up revs quickly and smoothly, with a distinctive bass tone at low revs that builds to a spine tingling and addictive turbine whine as you keep the throttle pressed to the floor.

Imagine an engine that's docile in traffic but comes on the cams at 3,000 revs, unleashing the latent beast within and charging past the red line with no rev limiter cutting in to spoil the fun even if you keep it planted.

Imagine that's the BMW M52 2.0?

Err, no. Actually I was describing the 1.2 triple in my wife's Nissan Note, which has a hell of a lot more character than the BMW six. No, really it does despite the lack of outright power. Our Zanussi washing machine has more character on a fast spin for Christ's sake.

The truth is I found the Z3 to be enormously competent.

The engine is so quiet and smooth that I kept hitting the rev limiter in second (at a lowly 6,500rpm). The power delivery is completely linear - there's no surge anywhere in the rev range, it just pushed the car along. The suspension soaked up the bumps without transmitting the slightest of jolts into the cockpit. The steering made the car go wherever I decided to point it and the car moved along the road at speed with no drama whatsoever.

So BMW. Where's the fun? Isn't it supposed to be a sports car, not a luxury executive saloon?

Where's the mechanical thrashings of the engine? The rasping exhaust note? The steering feedback? The turn in? Where's the ability to adjust the car's attitude mid bend with the throttle? Where's the drama?

Truth be told it's a very good car, but that's damning with faint praise as I'd heard that BMW are supposed to make great cars. hwell:

So, what to do? Well, I still need to drive a 1.9 in case that engine actually has more (some?) character, and I also want to drive a 2.2 and a 2.8 before committing to purchasing a donor (the 3.0's brakes are too big for my wheels).

But it's not all bad news. I'm guessing a change of exhaust would make it sound more dramatic, while skinnier, taller tyres should give the handling a lot more adjustability (I was worried that the 2.0 engine would be too powerful for 185/15's but I now know they'd be fine).

Ultimately I expect the transformation from Z3 to SWB to also transform the feel of the car enough to make it interesting, while preserving enough of the sheer competence of the BMW donor to make it a genuinely capable intercontinental GT car.

Which is exactly what I didn't know I wanted until today...

I'll give it a go. My, those Linglong tyres look like good value...

Ha ha, I pity whoever does get that job. Mr C was Top Gear and I think the BBC have made a big, money losing mistake in sacking him.

The most annoying thing to me is that because he's lost his temper and thumped someone the beeb now can't see any way he can continue working in the public eye.

If he'd been a premiership footballer and he'd thumped/bitten/kicked/stamped on/raped someone, he'd get suspended for a couple of matches, fined twenty minutes' pay and be back on the pitch in time for the cup final.

Bloody hypocrisy I say.

Top Gear just won't be the same again and if they put Tiff Needel or Quentin bloody Wilson in as presenters I'm cancelling my TV licence as my telly will be all smashed. By me.

Yep, that sums it up nicely - extreme adequacy.

Would love to meet up at Stoneleigh, I should be going this year unless work gets in the way.

Those sound very interesting Rob, please keep us updated with progress and pictures.

And if you need a thread to hijack feel free to use this one. I'm not that precious about it being my page.

Hi Ed, the thread where the tyre speed rating was being discussed is for a car where the modern donor can run up to a (limited?) 155mph top speed, and people are already talking about turbos and superchargers.

Obviously, the performance potential of those cars plus the easy access to information about the donor vehicle makes it easy for a collision investigator to check whether the tyres fitted are correct for the car.

Where 'classic' based kit cars are concerned there are two factors at play - one is that the data isn't available off the shelf to check, and the second is that pretty much nothing that got used as a donor back in the day could exceed 120mph anyway.

I'd say that a Rover V8 Marlin (with about 150bhp?) would, depending on the gearing, be all done aerodynamically by about 110mph, and more power wouldn't necessarily add much to the top speed, just the acceleration. As such, you could put hand on heart in Court and state that the H rated tyres you fitted were definitely suitable for that vehicle.

The current BMW based Marlin Sportster, however, would quite possibly need V, W, Y or Z rated tyres.

As for availability, generally speaking, kits using older donors (Sammio/Miglia) use classic wheels and classic tyres are available to suit, while more modern donors (Z3/MX5) tend to use modern wheels and modern tyres are also available to suit.

After two years driving my Spyder on modern roads my advice would just be 'don't skimp on safety'.

What a great looking example, certainly some inspiration there.

Got to agree with Paul that it looks better without the bumpers, but for anyone who wants the Lusso look rather than the race look, the Spitfire bumper looks to have real possibilities - a whole one at the back and the ends cut off for the front maybe?

They look like they could work, as could the similar (proper) Mini ones at under £30 per pair new.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-BRAND-NEW-PAIR-OF-CHROME-MINI-BUMPER-OVERRIDERS-WITH-ALL-FIXINGS-/171733796040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fc21c4c8

I'm not going to be fitting bumpers to mine as I'm aiming for a 'Lusso adapted for the track' look, a sort of gentleman's weekend luxury racer rather than an out and out race car or junior limo.

It's always interesting to see the ideas people have as to how other/unusual parts can be adapted to suit a kit car, so feel free to use this thread to discuss any ideas you might have.

...speaking of which, my side repeater indicators turned up today -







They're NOS (new, old stock) from the Autobianchi A112



They cost me £31 including p&p from Greece via ebay.

I'm really pleased with them, they look the part, the quality is what I'd describe as good enough and they have a pleasingly period feel to them as they've been sitting unused on a shelf since about 1970.

Whatever did we do for spare and rare parts before the internet put us in touch with sellers anywhere in the world?

And I was a luddite who spent years ignoring the 'web, believing it to be of no use to me personally. How wrong I was...

Nice looking 2.0 donor listed on ebay today -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-BMW-Z3-Convertible-/291419772381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d9f8d5dd

Sadly doesn't have a/c or cruise control or I'd have hit the 'buy it now' button as it looks to be an honest sale (nothing to do with me btw).

Yep, I'd seen those two links and they do look the business but they're not far off twice the price of the Autobianchi ones I bought.

Can't remember who, but one European contributor has talked of spending e20,000 to put one of these on the road, and it would be easy to spend such a significant sum if you insist on absolute parts originality and contract out jobs such as trim and paint to professionals.

With this build I'm aiming to strictly control the costs while ending up with something that looks convincing - I completely blew my budget out of the water on the Spyder, spending almost double what I set out to - so I'm looking to use as many great vfm parts as possible and will be doing all the work myself (with the exception of a headlining).

So far I've managed to source a pair of suitable leather seats for £100 (around a £400 saving against new, period looking leather buckets), a set of period looking wheels for under £100 (£1,000 cheaper than suitable wires & adaptors) and a pair of side repeaters for £31 (£25 cheaper than the Lancia alternative).

With a planned budget of £7,500 the savings so far of £1,425 mean that I can spend more on a much better donor. My expectation is that a really good donor will save me money in both the build and on longer term running costs: I should get more back for the panels, interior and parts than from a scruffy clunker, I'll need to spend less time and money refurbishing the running gear (getting my Vitesse chassis and drivetrain back into shape added about 9 months and £2000 to my Spyder build) and I should end up with a more reliable and better driving car once it's finished.

I know I only saved about £25 with those repeaters, but if I can do that on ten more items then the combined savings will pay for the tyres.

That's the plan, anyway...

Oponeo have the H rated sprint classics for £80 each including delivery -

http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-details/vredestein-sprint-classic-185-80-r15-91-h#88682850

Camskill did have them at £75 each, but appear to have sold out.

I'm holding off on buying the tyres until I've got the donor - if it's a 2 litre or less it'll be the HR sprint classics, anything bigger and it'll have to be 205/65/VR15's, a size that comes in loads of choices at the £60 to £80 each mark.

I wish you hadn't posted that price list - if Chris reads that post he might put his prices up!

£1,200 for a pair of spot lamps? What are they made of, diamonds soaked in truffle oil?

Six hundred and twenty quid for a bug screen? It's only a bit of Perspex bolted to the bonnet!

They're having a laugh. Even if I won the Euromillions I wouldn't pay those overinflated prices, I'd rather walk. Or build one myself...

These look nice -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251745301725?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Of course, the fitting kit is £1,165.15 +vat.

Bargain, they'd still be £233.10 cheaper than the optional ones from GTO Engineering.

It's funny how fate can intervene in things.

I have been struggling for some time to decide on what tyres to go for. I liked the idea of original size 185/80/15 Vredestein sprint classics, which are available in H and V speed ratings.

The issue I had was with the choice of donor - as discussed on another thread, any Z3 with a motor larger than the 2.0 six needs V rated tyres fitting.

I want this car to come in under budget, so I had set aside no more than £320 per set of four (fitted), which would rule out V rated Sprint Classics as they are around £150 each.

So the backup plan if I happen to get a 2.2 or 2.8 donor was to use Vredestein Sportrac tyres in a more modern size - 205/65/15V, which would come in at about £280 for a set.

So, I was searching on line for the best price for those when someone ebay listed a set of part-worn Sportrac 3's, recently removed from an E-Type.

They were in suitable sizes - a pair of 205/65/15V's and a pair of 225/60/15V's, and have 6mm tread remaining. Best of all, they were priced at under £100 for all four with best offer facility.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261810546195?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

So, best offer declined, counter offer accepted by me, £85 paid and hoping to collect them tomorrow or Thursday.

That's the tyres sorted on a budget then.

Interesting site, now bookmarked for reference.

Everything does look suitably expensive - I'd been looking for a source of those lazy 's' shaped bonnet pins for ages but I don't think I'll be buying any at £225 per pair (plus vat and p&p?), especially as I found this US MG forum where a chap eventually made his own for less than eighteen bucks the pair (on page 2) -


http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?1,1043799

The tail lights look really good too, but is there really going to be enough difference between them and the ones Chris put on his parts list to justify about five times the price?

It's now become a bit of a personal challenge for me to keep the costs down as low as possible without compromising the way the car looks.

Yep, could be a good starting point to upscale it on a 3D printer then use the copy as a buck to have the panels hand beaten in aluminium. With a suitable engine, gearbox and diamond studded spot lamps soaked in truffle oil it shouldn't cost more than about £440,000...