This is a read-only archive of the old Madabout Kitcars forum. New posts and replies are no longer possible, but every thread is still here to browse and read.
In Blue Peter Fashion - here is one I made earlier:
This was an unfinished project, putting a fibreglass body 275GTB/4 body on to a shortened Ferrari 400a chassis. I sold it earlier this year to a guy in Italy when I ran into health problems and thought I would not be able to finish it.
Now I have recovered and looking for something else to do and thought I might put the same body on a BMW Z3. The reason for choosing this is that all the Z3 panels are bolt on and opinion has it that it will not need an IVA. I am planning to retain the screen for ditto and rollover strength and the door internals for side impact protection. Also, the modern (ish) mechanicals will make it possible to use as a daily driver and the price of a donor is much more reasonable.
Purists will not like it because I will have to make some concessions about the profile because of (1) the windscreen shape (2) the difference in conformation between the door, screen, wheels and bonnet.
I have played with cut out profiles taken from engineering drawings and cut up 1:24 scale models of the Z3 and 275GTB and reckon that it is possible and not too far from the 275GTB shape. This composite model shows the Z3 door in grey.
So, before I commit to buying a Z3 and altering my 275GTB panels, what do you reckon? Am I wasting my time?
Hi I would recommend taking a mold from your existing kit first so that when you go down the cut and shut route you can remake any panels if you go too far.
I have the moulds and I am in the process of making a standard body. I will then cut it to fit the 30mm longer wheelbase and shorter bonnet as you can see in the composite 1:24 model, then make new moulds and from them make a new body. That is quite a long job!
With the help of some references from Geoffs 250GTO thread, I have found side indicator repeaters at http://www.ebay.de/itm/Seitenblinker-Repeater-Ferrari-250-SWB-330-GT-275-GTB-500-Lancia-Fulvia-Coupe.
I am looking at two possibilities for side window glass - glass from the Z3 coupe available from america at $150 each (plus postage and duty) or lexan windows from Plastics 4 Performance (uk) [url]www.lexan-windows.com/[/url] at £90 each. The coupe has a different glass profile which might work.
Hi,
tell me more about that 275GTB/4 fiberglass body!
It looks very close to the original car on the 400i chassis! Where are you located? Are you selling bodies?
Hi Axel,
Thanks for the complement. Read my original posting for what I have NOT said. I don't know about copyright law and I don't want Mr F's lawyers chasing me. I can only work for an hour or so each day so you would have to wait for me to finish my adaptation of the shape to a Z3 chassis. My thoughts on that have changed and I will have to buy a new 275 model to see if I can move the wheel arches to make it fit the door and windscreen better, rather than my original plan to lengthen the sill by 30mm. I live in Derby and send me a private message if you want to come and see work in progress.
George
Here are my second thoughts - my Photoshop skills are not well developed so I have ended up cutting the outlines on printed paper and sticking them together.
I have started by putting the front of the door opening in the right place then cutting the wheel arches to fit my rather battered Z3 model. The paler red door is from the Z3 to show the differences in the door skins.
I have used Photoshop to fill in the body to the top corner profile of the Z3 window. I have also lifted the roof line to match the window top edge. The other major alteration is to shorten the rear edge of the bonnet to match the lower edge of the screen.
This makes the profile a bit tubbier than the 275 but I think it maintains the essence of the shape. I won't really know until I make a full size one.
(P.S. How do I make this image appear inline?)
Hi George
I recall seeing the car you built earlier for sale, I’m glad to hear you are feeling better and looking to build a new car. I seem to remember you saying that you could do the panels for a 275 Nart spyder, would that be on the BMW Z3 as well?
As far as copyright law goes my understanding is that you can legally build up to 4 exact copies of any production car for your personal use. I got this info from one of my friends who ran into trouble with Volkswagen Audi and had to research the legalities of his kit.
I have sent you a PM.
Good luck with your build.
Neil
Hi Neil,
Thanks for that info. The NART variation is quite easy if you have a standard 275GTB but at the moment all my time and effort is taken up with the 275GTB/Z3. I have had a very nice conversation with Tribute who could be interested when they see a finished product so I am energised again.
George
More second thoughts - does anyone know where I can get metal U channel to make a window guide? And how do I bend it without getting a kink (in the metal, not me!)
After an observation by Egdik that the front edge of the side window of the Z3 seemed to be angled back about the same amount as the rear edge of the 275, I realised that I could possibly make a replacement glass (or plastic?) window that would wind up and down. So back to the paper cutouts again.
This time I have moved the rear part of the 275 forwards so that the bottom of the glass meets the Z3 window and cut a new wheel arch further back.
I have made the sill one part with the lower front wing where the gills sit and managed to preserve all four while moving the wheel arch back. The top half of the wing will open with the bonnet like the Z3.
I still haven't quite resolved the door opening.
What do you think?
It is possible to use a Z3 front glass guide reversed as a rear guide - the benefit being that the vertical curvature is the same. Then find a top rail. Here is one welded up in my garage:
Also shown is a drawing of a Z3 base, in light blue, with GTB panels. They are to the same scale, but the sill is trimmed to suit and the GTB panels moved slightly, in an effort to give satisfactory proportions. ie the nose is lengthened and the rear overhang reduced. Only 3 front vents and the rear vents are moved forward a touch.
That is an interesting approach. I have been playing with two different lines of thought about the window frames.
One is to use stock, straight, U channel with a Lexan window and modify the fibreglass GTB panel at the rear of the door opening to match the slope of the Z3 front edge. It would be better to use channel with the right curvature to match the quarter light. Does anyone know if it is possible to bend U channel?
The second is to keep the standard glass window and make the rear of the door opening match the curve. This has the advantage of keeping the standard window but may change the look too much.
I have been trying to decide whether to keep the 4 engine side vents with reduced panel width each side or reduce the number to three. The 275 nose is very long and there is a greater distance from the wheel arch to the screen so it has to be modified somehow. Any comments are welcome. I am still playing with alternatives but I have not been out in the workshop since before Christmas as I have the crippling cold that is rife around here.
This video seems to indicate that you can bend U channel, although he doesn't actually show the bending process in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22PqMv1fQ9w.
As far as the vents go I would stick with the 4 slats and reduce their width a little. Going from 4 to 3 is a lot more obvious than going from full size to slightly narrower in my opinion.
Interesting video Neil, I thought a tube bender would just kink the U section. I would probably do the top corner bend separately and cut out enough to weld in place, the upright is bent the other way but much more gently. I am still wondering whether to keep the original Z3 glass (which is self supporting) and make the door aperture to fit the large radius rear edge curve like the hard top. Any opinions?
Some time ago I came across Simpson design in the States and here is a photo of their GTB interpretation on an MX5 base car. A Z3 conversion will be more realistic.
I was alerted to Simpson Design by the post on "Geoffs 250GTO thread" but I missed this photo when looking at their website. Using the MX5 as a base car imposes the same basket of compromises that I have faced with my 275/Z3 design but is less appropriate for this country than using the Z3 as a base because of the IVA rules and also the engine is limited to 1800cc whereas those who want more power can go for the 2.0, 2.2, 2.8, 3.0 or even the MTech 3.2 version of the Z3.
I see that they have retained the MX5 screen and door glass (and handle). They have lost two of the side vents and got the wrong shape for the side light and indicator. Overall a very nice update of the MX5 but is it a good imitation of the 275GTB? Egdik prefers to retain the 275GTB squared off shape with a new rear and top frame for the side window but my present inclination is to retain the Z3 glass for ease of manufacture (I can modify the fibreglass to suit either shape).
Through the forum I jumped to the Italian Replica Car Club site and found this interesting info:
"Please look at the [url]www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/vehicles.aspx[/url] (CHANGED TO https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration) website in section Motoring/ Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion - section kit conversions.
This has changed to include body kit conversions, and affects all body kit conversions finished or future builds, on unaltered chassis or monocoque bodyshells, if the general appearance of the vehicle has changed. For example F355,F40,F360,F430,Dino on Toyota MR2 or Ford Cougar - 250 GTO on Porsche or Datson - 308,F40,Testarossa on Pontiac Fiero - Dino, 250LM on VW Beetle
I have a received a reply to a number of questions I asked the DVLA in an email, which I can forward it to anyone who requests it. In short it says:
1. If the body kit fitted alters the general appearance, and the monocoque bodyshell or chassis has not been cut into, then the V5 should be sent to the DVLA with a covering letter detailing the changes , pictures of the finished car, and of the build if you have built it , and copies of any receipts you have. They will then amend the V5 under model to reflect the altered appearance, but not the Manufacturer.
2. If the monocoque bodyshell or chassis has been cut then it will have to have an IVA to register the vehicle.
3. All local DVLA offices are closing in the near future and I am informed that any inspections of vehicles to determine if IVA is required , will be done at a MOT testing staion.
The DVLA has not indicated what the price for this might be."
I have received this email from Roy Kelly, chairman of the Italian Replica Club.
I will be taking delivery of a Z3 next week and stripping it down. I will then try the panels I have made and check the cut and paste I will have to do with the real thing rather than bits of paper!
