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Hello to there to fellow builders,
I am new to this or any other forum, so please bear with me.
I have just bought a Mk 4 Spitfire, as a basis for a Sammio Cordite.
I have stripped the body off, and I am about to strip out the running gear, engine, gearbox etc.
My question is: I want to retain steel wheels, but go up in diameter and width, does anybody know the maximum sizes I could use, without fouling the bodywork?
Thank you.
hello WR, welcome to the forum and the Sammio Build team!
I don't know if there are any finished Cordites out there at the moment, so it is all a bit trial and error.
There is a thread on Wheel sizes for the Spyder (Herald based) which goes through several options with photos of bulkhead and chassis clearance.
I would think with 14" wheels and up to about 80 profile should be fine, any bigger and you will be needing to have a play with the clearance. Then again the Spitfire bulkhead might be totally different!
Thank you,
I will look for the thread, with the Cordite being based on the Spitfire, I think the bulkhead is dispensed with, as it uses the deluxe frame similar to the 2cv base. However, I have not ordered my kit as yet (waiting to complete the rolling chassis first) so I might be completely incorrect on this point!
Many Thanks again.
The critical thing with Sammios is the diameter of the tyre rather than the size of the wheel: measure the distance between the back of the standard tyre and the bulkhead once you've lowered the front to your desired ride height to see how much clearance you have to play with, then use this handy tool to calculate whether your chosen tyre will foul or clear it -
We race a Rover SD1, weird wheel PCD!! So what you may ask?
As a consequence of locating suitable wheels which are like hens teeth, discovered that if you buy new wheels, direct from manufacturer, they can drill them to any stud pattern that you may require.
Appreciate buying new as opposed to used wheels is expensive, but it clearly allows more choice.
Thank you one and all for your reply's.
I needed to know the wheel/tyre sizes because I hope to have set made up by Weller Wheels in Redditch. I intend to fit them with baby moons and chrome trims. I think this will look great, or not, depending on how you like your motors.
Incidently, what size of lowering block for the rear suspension? As any one fitted one?
many thanks
Baby moons and chrome trim rings is exactly where I would've gone if I'd built a 356 Speedster replica. Should look fantastic.
I've used the 14" wheel lowering block provided by Gary which is 75mm I believe. I've also added in cut down lengths of the top springs to drop the back end another 18mm making it roughly a 4" drop in total.
Having spent a little time talking things through with Phil9 when he dropped in to see me today I'll be reinforcing the Sammio lowering block with a bit of box section steel welded in vertically (I'll post pics once I've done it) as he's found that the block on his gets squashed during ahem, enthusiastic driving, leaving the diff mounting bolts loose. Which is bad. I'd already noticed that mine bowed out when I tightened the diff bolts down so I knew there was an issue there that needed addressing.
Anyway, here's my rear end set up:
The last pic shows the positive effect of dropping the back end so much: no more jacking of the inside rear wheel during spirited cornering.
Thanks Mister Towed,
Big help your photographs.
Glad you approve of the baby moons and trims.
I will start posting photographs as soon as the build comes along.
Hello out there in Sammioland,
On a recent post, there was photoshop pictures of the Sammio Spyder in different colours,
Any body know the post or date please.
Saves me a lot of time looking through various posts.
Thank you
Currently scratching my head about wheel and tyre sizes for my Cordite. Might have to see if I can source an MGF wheel and tyre to check the fit. Was going to go for 14" Minilites but want a bit wider tread than standard 155s.
Looking at pictures of the herald base, the bulkhead on the spit base won't cause the same problem to go with a bigger wheel.
According to the research I did, the widest tyre you should fit on a 4.5" rim is a 175. I've gone for 175/70/14's on my MGB wires, while Phil J has fitted 175/80/14's to both the cars he's built. I think they look great and they don't stiffen up the steering, but you can fit 15" MGF alloys relatively easily (same PCD and bolt pattern as the Triumph, but I believe you need rear spacers) which allow much wider tyres if that's what you desire.
If you haven't already seen this comparison calculator it's a very useful tool for checking the height and rolling diameter of tyres you're thinking of fitting -
As a rule of thumb, 175/80/14 are the tallest tyres I've seen successfully fitted to a Sammio, so if what you're considering is any taller they'll probably foul something.
to get this typical" historic look 15" ones would be correct...or as a cheaper alternative 14" ones with high profile tyres. 13" ones , as per original triumph spec. look too small and too "modern" compared to the rest of the car.
but now it comes to the driving:
with 14 or 15" wheels the final drive ratio will increase...means much poorer acceleration...considering the small engine size used in most sammios, its the "death" for acceleration.
But given diff ratio and screaming engines is a much talked about problem, surely larger wheels would help a bit? I'll find out soon as I've just bought a set of MGF 8 spokes on ebay! Ebay; can be your friend or your enemy!
I changed the original Triumph 13's for a set of 15" wires, but to be honest after living with it for a while and also seeing other cars i'm not too sure of "the look" and i think that if i did it all again i'd go for 14's with a slightly higher profile tyre.
As far as performance is concerned i've got a 2L and with a 3:63 diff my instruments are not far out (checked with GPS!) and my performance is more than fine. For now
Edit for Micha - i used to have a 4:11 diff fitted with the 2L (don't ask) and it was like driving a Diesel! I had amazing acceleration up through the gears, but 1st gear was basically redundant as i could pull off easily in 2nd and sometimes 3rd and then i was in 4th by just over 25/30 and at anything over 50 the engine was screaming away.
I wouldn't worry too much about the wheel size affecting acceleration - just about the tallest tyres you can physically fit to a Sammio (due to clearance issues with the front bulkhead) are 175/80/14's, which are 63.56cm total diameter. Compared to the standard fit 155/80/13's at 57.82cm it only equates to a 10% increase in final drive. Bearing in mind that the Spyder weighs at least 25% less than its donor that should easily compensate. The added bonuses are a theoretically higher top speed (with a 3:27-1 diff mine's 130mph!), more comfortable cruising and better fuel economy.
Ok, so I now have the 15 inch mgf wheels I bought from eBay. Good news is no bulkhead rubbing issues on the cordite. Bad news is that the 185/55/15 tyres equate almost exactly in size to the dolomite R13 with high sidewall tyres I had before so don't fill the arch any better! Question is, how much bigger would the circumference be on a 185/65/15 tyre??
Second question is, do standard mgf wheel nuts fit on the threads of a spitfire hub??
My Herald based Burlington Arrow runs 185/80 r15s.
Their diameter is is 26 1/4" (huge)
The gearing is taller, but with 1300cc, because the car is lighter than the original Herald, I can till spin the wheels in first, hang the back out on a wet bend or roundabout, and it still goes fast enough to scare me. Cruising is relaxed an quiet with the taller gearing.
So dont get too hung up over gear ratios and tyre sizes. The Sammio is light, only a two seater, and unless you are a fatty, larger wheels and tyres will be of benefit to the car in its new guise.
N
