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Clearly a nerve touched then. You obviously like the appearance of the Sammio in profile, I do not. Gary's original car had far better balance in it's lines. Just a subjective thing, we'll have to agree to disagree. I wish Micky every success with the new one. Moving on...
Not sure where you are coming from with your comments, first you say Micky,s car a VAST improvement then Gary's car had better lines, are you slating the scoop that the bigger engine requires? Toweds car has evolved around his build if you didn't mean to offend why persist with the provocative response.
It's okay, everyone has their own likes and dislikes, I'm just struggling to understand what's meant by the original Spyder having a 'nose-heavy' profile and the new one being a vast improvement. The new version has potential, I agree, but it still needs work, especially removal of or modification to the too tall head fairing.
I also can't think of a longitudinally mounted front engined car with anything bigger than a four pot under the bonnet that isn't nose heavy. Above are examples of Ferrari's 250GT, Maserati's 300S, a '57 Chevy, Big Healey and, possibly the most nose-heavy of all, an E-Type, a car Enzo Ferrari said was the most beautiful car he'd ever seen (and I'm still saving up for an Eagle Speedster...)
So, far from touching a nerve, all I'm asking for is a contribution to the debate that explains the difference between the nose-heavy Sammio Spyder and the (nose-light? Tail-heavy?) new version, perhaps with some pictures to back up the point.
Anyway,I've got seats booked for me and my teenage son to see the new Star Wars movie this morning, and it's looking like it's going to be a dry day so we'll take the Spyder. After all, I haven't driven it since, erm... yesterday. I do love it though, snout 'n' all.
Okey dokey, to clarify my view: the original Sammio has too much distance between the leading edge of the front arch and where the headlamp and 'mouth' are. When viewed in profile there is too much going on at the front, relative to the overhang at the rear. Taking the Austin Healey or 250SWB that you used to illustrate your point, take a look at their profiles: short distance between the front arch and the front of the car, a longer distance between the rear arch and the end of the car. This makes them looks swept back and rakish, rather than nose heavy.
I like the Sammio, I would hardly be browsing on here if I didn't, but the D24-style nose does nothing for it in my view.
I appreciate that this is a picture taken during development, but it's the only profile picture of the 'new' sammio I could find -
Personally, I wouldn't base a car of this type on a Spitfire tub. The wheelbase is that bit too short and the Spitfire bulkhead too high, resulting in a car that might just look short and dumpy.
To me, the original (Italian) Sammio Spyder got the proportions just right and the Herald/Vitesse wheelbase allows for a full-sized driver (me, Barry, Phil J etc., all about 6' tall and harumphteen stone) to actually fit behind the wheel.
Can't see much difference in the front overhang between the above and below either.
Dash is a moulding taken from a Porsche 550 that I chopped about and blended in. Works really well and suits the car imho.
can you tell us how you managed to register the BMW-Sammio?
i mean you have a modified chassis, a different motor, different gearbox, different brakes...so that wasnt a problem for retaining the original ID?
i mean it was done 101% the "official" way?
can anybody also explain me why some sammios are named "sammio", "triumph sammio" "herald-sammio"...which imo would be the correct way to do it....and others are still running as "herald" with maybe the bodytype being changed to convertible ? (but it could have already been a herald-convertible before, so how to detect the difference?)
Hi Oxford 13/60, I'v still got the BMW 1.6 engine and gearbox under my bench if your interested??
Hi RochdaleGT, you should read the DVLA/VOSA web sites and other web sites to study the information regarding this sort of thing.
Basically VOSA say a car is made up of 6 major components each scoring pre-set points and to retain the original identity the car must "score" 8 of the 14 points ie; the original chassis and ANY two major components which will always score the 8 points needed.
Chassis =5 points
Axles =2 points.
Suspension =2 points.
Steering =2 points.
Transmission =2 points.
Engine =1 point.
Total 14 points.
Note-- the body panels and interior is not included it these figures
Where the BMW powered Sammio is concerned the chassis was not "modified" just a pair of 3mm plates welded onto the outside corner of the front outriggers. The engine was bolted to these and the gearbox mounted to the original gearbox mounting point.
Not really any different than replacing an original 4 cylinder 1300cc engine/gearbox with a straight 6 2000cc engine/gearbox.
The brakes were a simple up-grade using type 16 calipers as fitted to later Triumphs.
So the upgraded car scored 11 point of the 14 point available as the only original listed componets not used was the engine and transmission .
I notified DVLA of the engine details and changed in the V5 before I re-registered the Sammio.
When filled out, the V627/1 form will show all the correct details matching the V5 perfectly ie; chassis number, engine number, engine cc ect. Just how DVLA likes it !!!
Hope this clears things up
As far as the vehicle title goes I think that depends on who at DVLA is doing the paperwork and how the paperwork filled out.
I'v seen V5 with all manor of things such as TRIUMPH SPORTS, RE-BODIED TRIUMPH, TRIUMPH KIT CAR ect.
I once registered a hot rod as a HILLBILLY HOT ROD, it even said HILLBILLY on the tax disc
In my experience if a kit car is not registered correctly there's normally a good or bad reason why.
It's the old story every things OK until you have an accident and someone gets hurt, then the sh*t hits the fan. I'm sure Mr T will have some horror stories on that subject.
this clears up things a bit...but why you mentioned in the sales advert:
The V5 (log book) still reads Triumph Herald but the engine details have been updated and read correctly, so if it's going for export it will be easier to register in Europe as a Triumph but if it stays in UK then I will help with the correct UK registration.
especially as the herald was a convertible already...so the v5c, as it is now, doesnt indicatee that "something" happened in terms of body change
That would depend where in Europe, the union isn't as general as you might think with some countries accepting modified vehicles and others not...
Same rules interpreted different .
Rochdale Micky1mo didn't need to trick anyone , the changes only lost 3 out of the 14 points , as he explained 8 were needed to qualify his car.
My build scored the full 14 even though sometime in the vehicles history the Herald engine was lost and a Spitfire one fitted, all recorded and legit.
"I notified DVLA of the engine details and changed in the V5 before I re-registered the Sammio. "
so this was a kind of "trick" to collect some requestd points afterwards? right?
No "trick" needed. No extra points needed either as all was in order and documented.
The V627/1 form requests the "Make of vehicle component".
Engine and transmission were listed as BMW and all other components were listed a Triumph. Just in case the car needed to be inspected, which some are.
I even gave the registration of the BMW donor car!!
On the back of the V627/1 under "additional notes or comments" I also gave details and photos of the engine/gearbox transplant.
AGAIN -- NO "TRICK" NEEDED, I just give DVLA what they were looking and asking for ie; tick-all-the-boxes and fill-in-all-the-spaces .
I will add that I have built, helped build, modified and registered many, many cars and motorcycles over the past 20+ years so do have a good working knowledge of the way DVLA works and the procedures which they follow, sometimes this experience helps.
As Michael One Moment has pointed out , no ''tricks'' needed . If you follow the guidelines and persevere , you can get your car legitimately registered .
I think it is easier for some overseas buyers to have their cars left as Triumph Herald ...I have been asked not to change a V5 by an overseas buyer before ..I have also been asked to get Triumph left on , but S*mmio added .
DVLA initially , told us that the vehicle no longer resembled a Triumph , so the makers name needed to be changed . These earlier cars were registered as a S*mmio Spyder or Spyder Sports ...DVLA then decided that the components of the vehicle should be acknowledged , so they insisted Triumph should stay - later cars are now registered as Triumph S*mmio .
The points system is pretty clear and well documented above , so no need to go over that again.
nope-its exactly the opposite: a car named as triumph herald is contra-productive, as the car isnt a herald anymore. or does a sammio look like a herald?
if its named triumph-sammio, that would be perfect...as its clearly identifyable that its a triumph base/chassis which has been re-bodied.
the chassinumer clearly identifies it as herald convertible.
so the body type convertible does not give a clear "identification" that the car was rebodied form a herald (ususally tin top) to a sammio (ususally convertible)....in that case it looks on first view like the non-converted herald has been fitted with a BMW engine...and afterwards being converted with a sammio body without annoucncing the dvla that a rebody was done and finally driven with its original herald ID..i hope you can understand what i mean? like driving a sevenish kitcar, aka westfield, on its donor registration aka ford-escort (not exactly the same, but i hope you can understand what i mean with this example)
if its named triumph-sammio, that would be perfect...as its clearly identifyable that its a triumph base/chassis which has been re-bodied.
Well , the ones being registered by DVLA nowadays will say ''Triumph S*mmio Spyder'' or ''Triumph S*mmio Spyder Sports'' ...I have done some in the last 12 months and that was what came back ....so happy days .
I totally get what you mean and a lot of Kits are still on their donor logbooks unrevised . It can cause problems sometimes ...
I cannot comment on how it works for you ..but I very definitely have been told to leave the V5c unaltered for at least 3 French buyers , a Belgium guy and a Dutch guy .....If that's what they want - who's to argue ?
even in the mentioned countries it would be ok with triumph-sammio. dont trust what people ask, because their local mot-tester prefers it this way.
mot-testers often think differtn, because they dont knwo the laws. as they think they are "god" peopel follow their instructions blind, even the law tells different.
the laws are easy and clear...but often unknown to the mot-testers, finally everybody is confused because nobody knows the real direction. things are done by "hearsay", but not by the real laws, hence everyone goes their own way, even it wouldnt be necessary.
like a VW buggy....a VW Beetle is a VW beetle and a buggy on a beetle chassis is a VW buggy...or buggy
I have found the system so straight forward for NON IVA cars like the S*mmio , Miglia , Tributes etc. that it's not a problem to get the changes sorted and keep things 'correct'
I cannot comment on other peoples decisions though ...it's up to them what they do and if someone chooses to buy a car of this nature , its their responsibility to satisfy themselves on what paperwork works for them .
