MadaboutKitcars

Nice wiring loom on that engine WCA.

You must be very popular at the Scout jamborees, what with being able to start a fire with virtually anything - sticks, steel and flint, Reliant Scimitar brake hoses...

If the filler has been put over the Gel coat and not old paint then you should be ok, modern polyester primer surfacers, and 2k primers have come a long way in the last 10 - 20 years.

Shrinkage tends to happen when you prime over old paint, the solvents in the primer eat in to the edges and soften the old paint causing it to shrink.

Cellulose was very bad for this which is why most body shops will not entertain it anymore.

Making sure the primer is fully cured is also very important, more so with Polyester which should only ever be dry flatted, never wet.

I totally agree with the comments regarding heat will bring any air bubbles to the surface, this is why fiberglass bodies are never baked in an oven.

Dampness is also an enemy of paint work, micro blister in paint is 99 times out of 100 due to moisture either in the air during priming, Primer being left too long before paint being applied,( primer is porous) or moisture in the air line.

Hope this helps ?

Jeff.

Thanks Jeff for the good advice. So is it a good or bad thing to 'cure' a fibreglass bodyshell in a heated spray booth before prep and paint?
Also, referring to your polyester comment, and assuming a polyester resin is being used rather than epoxy resin, are you recommending that prep is done dry rather than wet?
Cheers, Steve

Steve,

The polyester primer is a spray filler, it is designed to fill pin holes and undulations in the filler work, so in the same way that you would not wet flat body filler, it is recommended that this stuff is dry flatted.

After this is applied I then use normal 2k primer, this is also a dry flat system but can be wet flatted without problems provided you don't leave it wet all over
ie, wet flat one panel then dry before moving on to the next.

I have very limited experience with moulding Techniques,( I am a panel beater/ painter) I have taken moulds from car panels and reproduced them with a reasonable amount of success.

I always thought that the longer a panel was left in the mould the better it cured, saying that I have painted race car panels the next day from the mould with no problems.

Their are pictures on my Business Face book page of a couple of fiberglass cars I have done recently (Hilltop Motors Ferndown ) one was a TVR, very straight forward job, the other was a JPS lotus elan, a bloody nightmare it came in stripped of all its paint and was full of pinholes.

Don't forget most glass bodies produced nowadays are layed up on gel coat, the old Lotus and TVR were not , the problems occur when their are cavities between the two as we all know.

Jeff.

No arguments about your paintwork Jeff - nice work there. Is that a racing Carlton Carrera?! Awesome!

(I love the header profile pic but not convinced you painted that one lol )

No mate,

The header profile was not my work, however it is a colour i am very tempted to copy for my one, I have had a tenth made up and it does look lovely.

I think the race car stuff is mostly BMW, the smaller pic in the header profile are old E-types the white one i raced with my father years ago.

I have most of the parts for my build now, just waiting on Chris for the kit, looking forward to getting on with it.

Jeff

Hi. Ive never posted before but could not hold back any longer.
I come from the American car world and forums and have read every thread on the Tribute site. I came across Richard Bird of Nubodi Automotive back in the late 1980's. I was at a show at Hickstead showground where his car won best of show. It was a Chevrolet Chevelle 1969 which had a big block engine and a shortened rear axle, fully 'tubbed' which he called Pro Street No.1. This car started the Pro street craze in the nineties. It was on the cover of Street Machine (remember that?) and was the best car I have even seen...ever! He has not mentioned here any of these fine vehicles he has built like this over the years. I wait for any new posts to his thread to learn. Although I've never met him he comes across to me as a good chap, where Danny HUFC gets the idea he is arrogant I'm not sure. Perhaps he could give us an example, I cant find any? Although with his credentials I would not blame him.
There's seems to me to be a bunch of three, Roadster, Danny (was that your excuse for an apology?) and Mister towed (although he seems to be changing his tune now) who are over loyal to Chris and Dan because they think Nubodi is taking the credit and limelight for Chris's work.
As I and others seem to see it, Nubodi came along when Chris never had any finished vehicles to show and has propelled his company to be a major player in the kit car industry via the press and standard of work. I am willing to bet none of the these three has even met him or spoken at length with him. You should be ashamed of this behavior. Hopefully this has come to and end now and he, Richard has not been put off and continues to post.

Just got back from Race retro at Stoneleigh. I had to do a show report for Kitcar magazine and meet a nice man called Mark with a MG TCR. Its all been going on here on the forum! Hopefully we can get back to business now.

Okay let we help with the confusion over painting and prepping GRP.
The problem is 99% of bodyshops in the UK work with metal or plastic parts. GRP has to be treated in a different way. There are many old wives tales but this is from my experience.
You should not use water with wet and dry when sanding GRP. Dry sand only. This is because the GRP can absorb moisture which will hide under the paint till it has a car cover put on it (and moisture collects underneath the cover which seems to draw out the water under the paint skin) or the sun comes out. This will cause micro blistering. The water expands and stretches the paint and no amount of T-cut or popping them with a pin or heating with a hair dryer will get rid of them. This also happens if you spray outside with a high moisture content in the air. As the paint droplets fly through the air they pick up microscopic water droplets. This is another cause of micro blistering. All you can do is sanding off and repaint.

Now the air bubbles WCA was talking about is a completely different problem. These are caused at the manufacturing (of the GRP) stage. It the GRP is mixed and applied too quickly to the mould, air pockets can form in the mix. The same can happen if the GRP is mixed when its too hot.
Once this has happened its a ticking time bomb. Usually you paint the car and it looks stunning. Then when the sun comes out (rare I know) the air in the pockets expands stretching the paint even more than micro blisters. It looks like rust under the paint. Heating it up with a heat gun or popping the air bubble (so water can get in when it rains or you wash it) isnt going to help. You then have to 'dig out the pockets and fill with fibreglass paste (NOT normal filler).
To stop this happening either put the car in the sun for a few hours or a spray booth on heat to 30-40 degrees for an hour or two. If any appear fill and then primer.

If you plan on driving your car around in primer before you paint it then be warned that primers except red-oxide can be porous (absorbs moisture). You must sand back further than you would normally to make sure you get all of the moisture out from under the skin of the paint. We use red oxide primer when its need for this reason.

Now the comment which caused all the fuss in the first place concerns filler on GRP.
From my experience no matter how modern or expensive a filler is, it will not contract through hot and cold to as much a degree as GRP. Filler on a metal wing for example there is virtually no expansion and contraction so the filler stays put. The GRP seems to 'breathe' in and out. The thinner it is the worse this gets. The solution is to use where possible fibreglass filler (which expands and contracts closer to the GRP panel) with the thinnest of regular filler to smooth the surface. To be fair the Tribute products are fairly thick (especially the Z300s) but still stick to the process above and you will not get any heartaches.

Another tip is always squeeze the hardener tube from end to end a few times to thoroughly mix the hardener before use. So few do this and it does have any effect (obviously) on the quality of your filler and ultimately the final finish.

The red oxide primer that you get in aerosols is porous and will absorb moisture, it is basically the same as a grey aerosol primer.

The Resin/ Zylene based stuff is not porous, it is also more of a treatment system, this is what is used to paint bridges, steel beams in construction etc.

Personally I would never advise driving a car in primer of any sort for any length of time. more so at this time of year, I have seen so many paint jobs ruined because of this.

Hope this helps ?

Jeff.

I would advise you if you are doing your own prep to invest in some differing size blocks for sanding. I see so many GRP cars with wavy paintwork when they need not. Im not suggesting our paint finishes at Nubodi are perfect (its difficult with GRP moulds) before anyone starts posting pics. If you make sure you only sand in one direction it helps remove the ridges. No water, just dry. We use the mesh type, not paper as it lasts forever!

I have met Richard in person and we have spoken at length
He told me his Z300s was an accident damaged car and he told me how much he sold the blue Kobra for.

I am not ashamed for having an opinion.

Lastly for today, unless there are any questions, is the result of the above.
Although it not our best work here's Nicks car WCA which he got back yesterday. Considering it was two bonnets stitched together!!

However Smash's (Scott, remember this is his thread before it got hijacked sideways) car will be our best work yet and will be on show at Stoneleigh in a few weeks.

Looks lovely Richard, I take it that it is base and clear ? if so what lacquer do you use ?

Jeff.

If you put a GRP bodied car in a bake oven I would not advise heating above 25 degrees.

1/Just for the record, although its not really any business of yours, I agreed a saleprice of £8600 for the Kobra as it was a prototype and needed work. The customer asked us to do more work on it which brought it up to £9800. (sorry I lied then about not selling one under £10000...shoot me now. I can post the sales invoice if you wish?

2/My wifes car was accident damaged but was only cosmetic and the outer panels were unbolted anyway. The boot lid still did not fit. Chris made another one free of charge and this was a better fit but we could not spend the time on it to get it perfect as we were busy with other builds. We think the main problem may be the hinge. Why do you persist in harping on about this car, are you so perfect? We are not, and should not be judged by by this build. Post a picture of your car so everyone can see your work?

I so look forward to a chat with you at Stoneleigh.

No lacquer just 2K gloss black. Scotts car will have several coats of lacquer and then cut back after a week of hardening.

The one we get from the paint suppliers must be this type then. It says on the tin non-porous to water ingress.

Result then.

If a customer needs his/her car back in primer for any reason, I
would always flash a coat of colour over it just to be on the safe side, then prep and paint as per usual when the vehicle comes back in.

Jeff.

Good idea, great work by the way.

The black paint job looks great, black i believe is the hardest colour to get a good finish as it shows every little imperfection in the prep work, well done.
I used celly on my build as i don't have access to a booth plus i was a virgin sprayer (the thought of Madonna singing like a virgin has just sprung into my mind, ohh happy days) so chose the more forgiven route for my first attempt but me thinks i may regret it in the long run as already i am finding the paint is very easily chipped as its so soft. Any way keep on posting info as it's what make's this forum what it is.

Thanks.

It's a hard way to make a living, and their are days when i wish I had done better at school, but it pays the bills etc etc.

I hope to see some of your work at Stoneleigh.

Jeff H - You are about 30 minutes down the road from me. I can drive down during the week and show what he has done