MadaboutKitcars

That's spot on 'Shadow.

I saw a GP Spyder Porsche RSK 718 replica in a car park in Bridgend when I was 19 and just fell in love with it. As an aircraft engineer I'd always been captivated by the exceptional standard of engineering built into the pre war Auto Union and Mercedes racers, and the RSK offered that in a very pretty body. When the mate I was with explained that it was a kit car that you could build yourself I decided on the spot that, one day, I'd build one.

Fast forward exactly thirty years to early 2011 and I still hadn't realised that dream. I found that I didn't fit in the 718, bought a donor VW Type 3 squareback to turn into a Covin Speedster just as they went bust, watched with dismay as Paul Banham's Metro based 'New Speedster' briefly offered some hope before vanishing into the ether, and did the career/house/wife/divorce/house/new wife/family/new career thing, which swallowed up the decades and the money in what feels like the blink of an eye.

On my 49th birthday I knew I'd never have the £15-20k needed to put a 356 Speedster on the road, I'd bought an MX5 and sold it because I found it somehow soulless, and I'd pretty much given up the dream of building my own sports racing car.

But something kept nagging away at me and I'd regularly ebay search Spyder/Speedster/Moss Monaco, etc, hoping to find an unstarted/unfinished project on the cheap. That's when Gary J's very pretty Spyder popped up at a price I could actually afford without having to pay for another divorce.

OK, so it took me four times as long and twice as much money to build as I'd budgeted for, but I ended up with a very nice car, built in two years for about five and a half grand.

And seeing as almost every other builder was painting theirs red, and almost every car I'd ever aspired to own was silver (even the MX5 I had was silver) after a lot of deliberation I decided to stick with my dream of owning a silver arrow, albeit with Lancia badges rather than Porsche, Mercedes or Auto Union ones.

It's a period colour - pretty much the only metallic one as far as I'm aware - and turned out to be a very forgiving choice for a first time sprayer. The finish I've achieved isn't perfect but it looks like it was sprayed on six decades ago and convinces almost everyone that the car's the real deal, even a chap from the Lancia owners' club at Goodwood.

Anyway, sorry to go on for so long but you did ask!

I guess you're going with BRG or Ecosse Blue for your XKSS? Unless you're prepared to fly in the face of convention, that is...

Simple...

Mister Towed,
Thank you for such an in depth elegant reply.

When I read the piece by Shadow, I understood then, why your car was silver, He put it really well.

But having read your bit, I am well educated as to where you came from, going to, and ending up!
And do not make apologies for “going on” going on is only unacceptable if its boring!

Your journalistic masterpiece was far from that!

Love the pictures, not to be outdone; I am looking for a pic of me in a mask of some sort.

Now its my turn to ramble! Some years ago I paid a deposit of £2.5 grand on a Jaguar XJ13 body shell.
As usual I squirreled away lots of bits, namely a totally rebuilt 4.2 triple-carb Jaguar engine, 4 bolt on chrome wire wheels, manual gearbox, rebuilt back axle and so on.

The bloke went bust, I lost every penny, and it put me off somewhat. I went off the XJ13 And the dream was replaced by the XKSS.

But I could not, for the same reasons as you, afford one (even self build!)

Then I saw Chris’s A352, and I saw the potential to have what looked like 120 grands Worth for peanuts, and went for it.

Yes it will be British Racing Green.

To me, BRG is the colour that Jaguar painted their race cars in, to race at Le Mans.

It was so dark, it appeared black at first glance, and you had to look again to notice it was actually GREEN!

What is passed off as BRG today, does not do much for me.

I was most impressed by that pic of you in a mask! A hard act to follow, but I’ve done my best with an old mask I used to wear back in my army days!
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For goodness sake WCA!
This is a kit car site,not a sexual deviants paradise!

It was the only mask photo I could find to join in the game...

Ah yes, the stylish yet functional S10 rubber face. I sweated buckets through one of those, and its predecessor, the S6, doing operational turn rounds on RAF jets (OTR's, essentially refuel, rearm and check the oil before the next combat sortie) for 23 years.

Agree with you about the more recent BRG being two shades too light, you might want to drop Phil J a PM over on the Sammio forum for the paint code for the original fifties Jaguar shade he's used on his Spyder (no.2) -



Having said that, silver's nice...

Might just do that Mr T

Exhaust Dome

Did a bit more to the dome, it's a shitty job that I dreaded doing,
and all my fears seem justified. However it WILL get done in the end and I am moving slowly towards that outcome.
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Rivnuts

Rivnuts,

I won’t explain what they are, as if you don’t know you can’t help me!.

I have known of these for some time, but never had a use for them but do now.

Does anyone out there have experience of them?

My body shell fibre glass varies from 2.5mm to 6.5mm Thick depending where it is measured.

I want to use rivnuts to attach all sorts of things, is this viable?

6mm splined rivnuts look like the size I need, but the “grip area” seems to vary so much from manufacturer to manufacture, (some don’t even bother to give spec)

Most seem to be for thin materials, and I am worried they might fracture or split the fire glass.

Answers most welcome.

Mitchelkitman,

Just to put you out of your misery, Jeremy got back to me about that screen, (as I knew he would!)

And it was around 6 inches too wide, or 150mm, if you prefer.

I know DaveCymru has used them with fibreglass on his Countach build.

So maybe drop him a PM if he doesn't see your request for info.

See here:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38282&highlight=rivnut#post38282

Cheers, Paul.

Thanks Paul I'll do that

I would be very wary of using rivnuts on GRP, I should imagine they would be one of the best ways to start spider cracks. I always used bonded on fastners to spread the load rather than focus them

<warning - waffle ahead!!>

Rivnuts..... ahhh, wonderful things. I'm always amazed i managed to build my Sammio without them! That said! I have tried to use them in all sorts of situations over the past year or so on the Countach, so i can give you a few examples of how they work "in reality".

I've mainly used aluminium rivnuts as I've not had much need to fit anything onto steel and i was warned at the start not to mix dissimilar metals. But i have used one or two steel ones in steel tubing and they are a lot more permanent than the alloy ones and a lot harder to squeeze!

The aluminium ones i have used a lot in alloy sheet and alloy box to mount panels, i.e. inside my front luggage area and they work a treat. Although you have to remember that as they are aluminium they are quite soft and I've noticed with panels that i take on and off a lot (at least the brakes are now fixed!) they can loose their thread and i have had to replace a few already.

As PaulL said I have also used them in fibreglass, primarily to hold my rear air intakes in place as well as a few other bits-n-bobs.
While the fibreglass in that area is a good few mm thick (6 to 8mm) and non-visible what i found was while they are good to attach panels, if they are removed/refitted just a few times then it is the rivnut that comes loose in the fibreglass.
I have now had to bond a few in place to stop this and this behaviour seems to be quite common when squished (technical term!) as they can quite easily eat up the surrounding fibreglass. Although it's worth mentioning that there is no starring or cracking in those areas after a good year of being in place!


But you piqued my interest about thin fibreglass so i just popped to the garage and had a quick test.

I found a bit of 4mm fibreglass (that looks remarkably Sammio grill shaped!) and fixed a 7x12mm rivnut into it to see what would happen!



i didn't have to squeeze too much to get a very firm fixing and on the front side it looks fine with no cracking



On the rear side it also looked really good and you can see that it doesn't have to expand massively in order to get good purchase. I also couldn't see any sign of cracking when i was in the garage.

Although.... when i came down and was uploading the pics you can clearly see on this one that the backside is stressed (i really regret writing that on this forum! )



That seems to show some stress around the rivnut, but seeing as it's only been in place a few mins i've no idea how that would develop over time? TBH i'd not want to mount anything heavy on it!

Best of luck with whatever you do, just post pics so that we can all have a good ponder (and steal any ideas that work! )

Dave

I think the minute that gets any stress applied (vibrations etc) there will be star cracks. Look at the damage stones cause when hitting the underside of wings etc.

They are a very neat solution though. I used steel ones as part of a roof rack project I developed and I elt like Popeye by the end of it! they are hard work!

I used several on the GRP caravan I built, and they have worked well. I didn't buy a setting tool - If you do a search on the net there are instructions on making a simple tool from strip of steel and nuts. I'd recommend if fitting more than 50 it would be worth investing in a tool though (one like a pop-rivet gun)

I used 'well nuts' to secure my flyscreen to the body.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WindScreen-Windshield-Screws-Bolts-Wellnuts-Washers-Honda-Yamaha-Kawasai-Suzuki-/310383244725?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item48444875b5

As they're rubber they absorb vibration so I'd suggest they might be worth considering as a long term solution for fixing things in a fibreglass body.

They've been in place for the 1,500 miles I've done in my Spyder this year (so far) with no problems.

Just a thought (I haven't tried this) but if the hole in the panel were drilled slightly oversize and the rivnut set on to a thin washer on the back it would alleviate the stress on the GRP and act as a captive nut? (Obviously you'd need access to both front and back of the skin so wouldn't work in a blind situation) Next time I'm looking for a removable panel solution I'll try it and report back.

I have used these on numerous race cars of mine over the years and to be honest now avoid them if possible. My experience is that the first time you need to undo a fastener in a rivnut one of two things will happen
A. The fastener will be seized solid into it
B. the rivnut will merrily spin in its hole

If i have to use them now i always use PU adhesive as well as setting them with the tool. I also use a scrap of ali as a backer when using them in GRP or the like. I also copaslip all fasteners before inserting them in a rivnut and rely on a plain washer us a spring washer to make sure they don't come loose.

The well nits towed used are good for GRP and the like and are easily available from most motorcycle and scooter shops as they use them a lot in the GRP and plastic fairings.

You may also want to investigate Dzus fasteners as they do a vast and varied range commonly used on race cars for quick removal panels.
HTH

Mac

AndyP57
Thanks for your input. It gives me more to consider.

Viatron

I'm glad I can benefit from your experience.

I only wanted to use rivnuts to secure the wind screen ( mounted in a steel frame), and the heat shield on the sill.

As Dave cymru said, the heat shield would most likely be okay, as its all in stainless steel it may never ever need to come off.

But the wind screen, hmmm, I am now leaning towards well nuts like Towed used.

I'm not at that stage yet, but as always I am trying to plan ahead .

I used the rubber (well?) type nuts once and the panel quickly came loose. They work like a rawlplug in that they expand a little when the screw is tightened? I'd certainly NOT use them for anything heavy.

Another solution would be to use Anchor nuts like these:



floating:


or fixed:

Viatron's comment reminded me that the original builder of my Countach had used wellnuts for an access panel in my front luggage area and when i came to unscrew it a few months ago they either just turned in their holes or fell apart as the rubber had perished over time.

Admittedly they must have been in place for at least 10 years and more likely 15, so not an immediate problem for you, but worth mentioning

First of all I would like to thank all you fella’s that gave me good advice on the rivnuts / well nuts issue.

It looks like Mr Towed was the only satisfied customer!

I paid a visit to my local motor bike workshop as instructed, where I think the old boy there, used to build bikes for King Henry the VIII, and he would not touch well nuts with a barge pole, which surprised me.

The outcome of all this is, that I am sure that rivnuts and well nuts have their uses, But one of them is NOT fitting Scottie’s windscreen on!

( N.B It’s much bigger and heavier than Mr T’s.)

Access to the place where the screen needs to fit the car body is very limited,
But even if I have to cut individual access holes for each ‘king nut, I will bolt the screen on with stainless steel bolts and nuts in the conventional way.

Today was so cold; I sat inside by the wood burner!

But I became so hot and bored that the ice cold concrete floor in the tent began to look attractive, so off I went for a while.

When I finished for the day, the ex soldier’s steel helmet looked more at home On the Jaguar than it would have on the battle field, so I was satisfied.
Here are some pics to illustrate that point:

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