11 Sep 2012, 11:21am
Mister Towed's Tai Chi build
11 Sep 2012, 11:26am
The A Frame really does the job. Much easier than hauling the car on and off a trailer. Could I ask if you could post a photo of where the frame meets the front suspension when fitted please?
11 Sep 2012, 11:30am
It's great to hear that it got through so smoothly.
I've been reading all the build threads on here, no least yours, Mr T, and I have to say that it's all inspiring me to get on with one myself. After all, it looks so easy!
I've been reading all the build threads on here, no least yours, Mr T, and I have to say that it's all inspiring me to get on with one myself. After all, it looks so easy!
11 Sep 2012, 11:33am
It's great to hear that it got through so smoothly.
I've been reading all the build threads on here, no least yours, Mr T, and I have to say that it's all inspiring me to get on with one myself. After all, it looks so easy!
I've been reading all the build threads on here, no least yours, Mr T, and I have to say that it's all inspiring me to get on with one myself. After all, it looks so easy!
As far as building and registering a kit car goes it doesn't get much easier than a Sammio. It's still been quite a challenge though. Good luck with whatever you choose to build and I hope to see your own build thread some time soon.
11 Sep 2012, 11:38am
The A Frame really does the job. Much easier than hauling the car on and off a trailer. Could I ask if you could post a photo of where the frame meets the front suspension when fitted please?
The chains loop over the bottom wishbones just inboard of the anti roll bar mounts. I've dismantled the rig I'm afraid, it comes apart to fit in the boot of a normal car, so I won't be able to take any pictures just yet.
The best advice I can give in towing with one of these frames is to pull it with the biggest vehicle you have access to and drive really smoothly. Apart from that it's like falling off a log...
11 Sep 2012, 3:00pm
Well done, another hurdle over for you. Look forward to seeing you sprint to the finish line now!!!! Mines still stuck in the starting blocks at the mo but glad i've got my donor even if it gets in the way at times.
Professional advice please.
I am considering buying a trailer to tow my Sammio and Mini on behind the motorhome ( one at a time) as I thought an 'A frame' was a bit of a grey area only really to recover broken down vehicles the same as a dolly. I have heard of people being made to stop towing auction purchases by Avon and Somerset Police because they are driveable vehicles. Maybe you could clarify this for me please as they are obviously cheaper to buy and easier to store than a trailer. Many thanks.
Professional advice please.
I am considering buying a trailer to tow my Sammio and Mini on behind the motorhome ( one at a time) as I thought an 'A frame' was a bit of a grey area only really to recover broken down vehicles the same as a dolly. I have heard of people being made to stop towing auction purchases by Avon and Somerset Police because they are driveable vehicles. Maybe you could clarify this for me please as they are obviously cheaper to buy and easier to store than a trailer. Many thanks.
11 Sep 2012, 3:03pm
Well done Mr T.
Now get it finished and enjoy it before the insurance runs out!
Now get it finished and enjoy it before the insurance runs out!
11 Sep 2012, 3:40pm
good job done next step open road well done
11 Sep 2012, 3:54pm
It couldn't have been easier. The chap from DVLA was full of compliments for the marque, commenting on the beautiful simplicity of the concept and how great the finished cars look. He was happy with the form downloaded from the Sammio website and provided a second one that needed to go with it (V55/5 I believe). He asked a few questions about whether any major parts had been replaced, checked the numbers matched and that was that. Job done.
It feels like a milestone has been passed today, and I think it's an appropriate time to thank Gary J (Lancelot) for coming up with the concept in the first place. Nice one Gary.
It feels like a milestone has been passed today, and I think it's an appropriate time to thank Gary J (Lancelot) for coming up with the concept in the first place. Nice one Gary.
Excellent news Towed....another one for the ranks...
Great to hear that you have a 'sensible' DVLA office and sounds like Andy's is straight forward too....the more that get built the easier it is , I am sure...we have 2 being inspected next week in Poole , both returning customers , that'll be about a dozen or so done here ...five in Peterborough ....its all very positive...
Thank you for the compliments too....the car was born out of totally selfish reasons initially but has grown into a concept that has enabled loads of people to create , in my opinion , a rather special little car ( pun intended! )
11 Sep 2012, 4:13pm
Oops.
Butterfingers!
Nice, sunny afternoon today so I started trial fitting the bonnet. This is one of two things that can really mess up the look of a Sammio Spyder imho, with the other being a raised driving position.
If the bonnet sits too high at the front it puts too much daylight between the top of the wheels and the wheelarches, leaves the headlights dazzling Jumbo jet pilots and just looks, well, odd.
I knew from the start that I was likely to experience some clearance issues with the Vitesse engine, and since seeing the two cars Phil J has built I also expected my top hose and coolant filler cap to need a subtle scoop or bulge above them. This has proved to be the case, with my top hose, filler cap, dynamo bracket and thermostat housing all fouling the underside of the bonnet.
So, start modifying things under the bonnet or cut a small hole in it for clearance?
I chose the latter for simplicity. If you look really closely you might just be able to see the small slot I've cut in the bonnet -
Subtle, huh?
Now then. My 'A' frame. Is it legal to tow a Sammio with it? Well, a couple of people have raised issues about the weight of the Spyder vs the weight of the tow car, whether or not the vehicle being towed needs to be braked and whether if what's being towed has got brakes, they've got to work (that last one is the only one that's got me thinking btw).
The answer is that it's a bit of a grey area. I looked at it from the perspective of a Copper, and asked myself 'What offence is being committed if I tow it with an A frame?' Well, I searched and searched but I couldn't find any offences. So I asked a road policing colleague who told me 'no way can you tow that with this'. So I asked him what offences were being committed. He thought about it for quite a while and then conceded that there weren't any he could think of. So, if what you're doing isn't illegal, the Police have no power to tell you to stop doing it.
If anyone can tell me what bit of legislation I'm breaking by towing my Spyder about with an A frame then I'll stop doing it immediately (of course). Until then, if I need to shift it anywhere before it's legally driveable, that's how it's going to travel.
Butterfingers!
Nice, sunny afternoon today so I started trial fitting the bonnet. This is one of two things that can really mess up the look of a Sammio Spyder imho, with the other being a raised driving position.
If the bonnet sits too high at the front it puts too much daylight between the top of the wheels and the wheelarches, leaves the headlights dazzling Jumbo jet pilots and just looks, well, odd.
I knew from the start that I was likely to experience some clearance issues with the Vitesse engine, and since seeing the two cars Phil J has built I also expected my top hose and coolant filler cap to need a subtle scoop or bulge above them. This has proved to be the case, with my top hose, filler cap, dynamo bracket and thermostat housing all fouling the underside of the bonnet.
So, start modifying things under the bonnet or cut a small hole in it for clearance?
I chose the latter for simplicity. If you look really closely you might just be able to see the small slot I've cut in the bonnet -
Subtle, huh?
Now then. My 'A' frame. Is it legal to tow a Sammio with it? Well, a couple of people have raised issues about the weight of the Spyder vs the weight of the tow car, whether or not the vehicle being towed needs to be braked and whether if what's being towed has got brakes, they've got to work (that last one is the only one that's got me thinking btw).
The answer is that it's a bit of a grey area. I looked at it from the perspective of a Copper, and asked myself 'What offence is being committed if I tow it with an A frame?' Well, I searched and searched but I couldn't find any offences. So I asked a road policing colleague who told me 'no way can you tow that with this'. So I asked him what offences were being committed. He thought about it for quite a while and then conceded that there weren't any he could think of. So, if what you're doing isn't illegal, the Police have no power to tell you to stop doing it.
If anyone can tell me what bit of legislation I'm breaking by towing my Spyder about with an A frame then I'll stop doing it immediately (of course). Until then, if I need to shift it anywhere before it's legally driveable, that's how it's going to travel.
11 Sep 2012, 4:19pm
So, can you carry on this week or do you have to work? And how are you making your scoop?
11 Sep 2012, 4:21pm
Your car sits very nice Towed , good gaps , good stance ....its shaping up into quite a pretty little thing , isn't it ?
11 Sep 2012, 4:25pm
I get the impression that you couldn't wait to take the angle grinder to the bonnet. The line from nose to tail looks right.
It's a shame that you were so clumsy, lopping off the tubes and riggers.
It's a shame that you were so clumsy, lopping off the tubes and riggers.
11 Sep 2012, 4:28pm
Gary H - I'm off until Saturday so I'll be getting on with as much of my car as I can. If I can get the bonnet fully fitted and fettled by then I'll be happy. Scoop? What scoop? I was going to leave it as it is. Or I might make something similar to the original Lancia D24 scoop only wider...
Gary J - Thanks for the compliments, the good thing about taking forever to build my car is that I've been able to learn from other people's experiences. I have a really clear image of what I want my car to look like and nothing less will do.
Gary J - Thanks for the compliments, the good thing about taking forever to build my car is that I've been able to learn from other people's experiences. I have a really clear image of what I want my car to look like and nothing less will do.
11 Sep 2012, 4:28pm
I can remember looking at towing rules some years back.
There was a legal limit for the weight of an un-braked trailer either as an absolute limit, or as a proportion of the weight of the tow vehicle (if lower).
There was no limit to the weight of a braked trailer that could be towed with a car (ie. non comercial vehicle), however exceeding the manufacturers recommendation could count as as a contributory factor if you were involved in any kind of incident. I bought Mondeo estate for its 1500Kg tow weight rating and towed 2000Kg without and problems.
Even quite small modern cars can exceed the limit for an unbraked load. A 2012 1600 Fiesta is 970Kg for example.
There was a legal limit for the weight of an un-braked trailer either as an absolute limit, or as a proportion of the weight of the tow vehicle (if lower).
There was no limit to the weight of a braked trailer that could be towed with a car (ie. non comercial vehicle), however exceeding the manufacturers recommendation could count as as a contributory factor if you were involved in any kind of incident. I bought Mondeo estate for its 1500Kg tow weight rating and towed 2000Kg without and problems.
Even quite small modern cars can exceed the limit for an unbraked load. A 2012 1600 Fiesta is 970Kg for example.
11 Sep 2012, 4:32pm
I get the impression that you couldn't wait to take the angle grinder to the bonnet. The line from nose to tail looks right.
It's a shame that you were so clumsy, lopping off the tubes and riggers.
It's a shame that you were so clumsy, lopping off the tubes and riggers.
Yes, looking at the car from the front quarter angle the wings flow very nicely. It is going to end up with quite a large scoop as I have a heck of a lot of bits sticking out at the moment, but I think I'll get away with it and I'd rather that than have the front wings sitting up too high.
I tripped over the rear outriggers while walking round the back of the car and my shins cut clean through them. Hurt like hell though and I've no idea how I'm ever going to reattach them...
11 Sep 2012, 4:38pm
I can remember looking at towing rules some years back.
There was a legal limit for the weight of an un-braked trailer either as an absolute limit, or as a proportion of the weight of the tow vehicle (if lower).
There was no limit to the weight of a braked trailer that could be towed with a car (ie. non comercial vehicle), however exceeding the manufacturers recommendation could count as as a contributory factor if you were involved in any kind of incident. I bought Mondeo estate for its 1500Kg tow weight rating and towed 2000Kg without and problems.
Even quite small modern cars can exceed the limit for an unbraked load. A 2012 1600 Fiesta is 970Kg for example.
There was a legal limit for the weight of an un-braked trailer either as an absolute limit, or as a proportion of the weight of the tow vehicle (if lower).
There was no limit to the weight of a braked trailer that could be towed with a car (ie. non comercial vehicle), however exceeding the manufacturers recommendation could count as as a contributory factor if you were involved in any kind of incident. I bought Mondeo estate for its 1500Kg tow weight rating and towed 2000Kg without and problems.
Even quite small modern cars can exceed the limit for an unbraked load. A 2012 1600 Fiesta is 970Kg for example.
Yes, the 'rules' I found dictated a maximum of 800kg's unbraked, recommended no more than 50% of the tow car's weight be towed and drew attention to the manufacturer's advisory limits. But I still haven't seen any bit of legislation that stops me towing a 650kg car with a 1500kg tow vehicle using an A frame. I also drove past a VOSA check point on the way home today and the chap with the clip board looked straight through me with a bored expression on his face, while a motorcycle cop overtook me on the A47 and didn't bat an eyelid. Phew. Looks like I got away with it this time...
11 Sep 2012, 4:45pm
Oh, and I used to tow something called an 'S' type trolley around on public roads with a Land Rover Defender. The Trolley weighed around 500 kilos and had four one thousand pound bombs strapped to it, which,, despite their nomenclature, weigh around 600 kg's each. I'm not sure how much a defender weighs but I don't think they're six tonnes...
11 Sep 2012, 5:49pm
Yaaaaay! Congratulations!
11 Sep 2012, 5:51pm
Great news Mr T. 
I look forward to seeing what you do with the bonnet.
Good luck, Paul.
I look forward to seeing what you do with the bonnet.
Good luck, Paul.
11 Sep 2012, 6:04pm
Something I hadn't realised earlier, due to all the excitement of the rebody inspection and everything, is that my brake servo fits under the bonnet with no clearance issues! And I thought I might have to modify the bonnet for it to fit...
11 Sep 2012, 6:47pm
I was just idly browsing the 'net for inspiration for a bonnet scoop when I came across this chap driving his Lancia D24 -
Presumably, when it rains, you pull over, snuggle down into the cockpit and that sombrero keeps the rain out.
Presumably, when it rains, you pull over, snuggle down into the cockpit and that sombrero keeps the rain out.
11 Sep 2012, 7:42pm
Well done Towed! Now, proceed with the punishment! 
op2:
op2:
11 Sep 2012, 8:25pm
well done on the inspection, as i understand it if the wheels of the car being towed are on the ground then the vehicle should be roadworthy, ie have tax, mot and insurance?
11 Sep 2012, 8:33pm
also if you have a look at the direct.gov site then a car being towed with a dolley counts as a trailer.....but if the car + dolley weighs over 750kg it must be abraked trailer....