This is a read-only archive of the old Madabout Kitcars forum. New posts and replies are no longer possible, but every thread is still here to browse and read.
@MrTowed - totally bow to your knowledge - it is fascinating stuff and obviously a minefield!
L@lm - only a few come to mind: Phantom GTR, GTM Libra and Spyder and I guess Ultima as originals. Big fan of Blackwell SPR although some obvious TVR DNA - pics do not do it it justice. And actually the GR120 plenty of 50s DNA
Of the successful originals that come to mind include Ginetta and Marcos. Both of which went onto bigger and better mainstream manufacturing having moved on from their kit car origins.
Whilst representing a modicum of maistream sucess, these are from decades ago. Most kit manufacturers are here for a season or two only, even if the players remain in the game for longer. The current re-panelling trend bodes well though.
Whilst representing a modicum of maistream sucess, these are from decades ago. Most kit manufacturers are here for a season or two only, even if the players remain in the game for longer. The current re-panelling trend bodes well though.
My point exactly, original designs that have achieved high levels of success are few and far between in this industry. Most companies that have stood the test of time are making replica's or "inspired by" kits at the very least with few exceptions.
I agree, the re-body trend is likely to continue and do well.
Original designs in the kit car world........ To be sold in large quantity do they have to appeal to the greater masses or the kit car enthusiasts? If it's to the greater masses, then won't they just end up like another eurobox?, and if it's a kit car hen it can't compete on price. Surely the designs have to be quirky to appeal to a niche market, so at least they get some sales! One that springs to mind is the Nova - what a great idea!
Identifying the niche can be hard though. Bertini had a nice looking offering that appeared to be well put together. It was also well supported by the kit media. Looks like they struggled to get past a dozen or so units sold though, even at a price that (based on Tribute changes) was £1,000 too low. I think the Tribute and later DNA approach to models differentiates enough why you would spend over £10k on top of the donor for what is still a Z3.
Identifying the niche can be hard though. Bertini had a nice looking offering that appeared to be well put together. It was also well supported by the kit media. Looks like they struggled to get past a dozen or so units sold though, even at a price that (based on Tribute changes) was £1,000 too low. I think the Tribute and later DNA approach to models differentiates enough why you would spend over £10k on top of the donor for what is still a Z3.
But do replicas (c/f new designs) sell more because they are 'better looking' or because they are a 'safe bet' for resale, or merely because they are replicas of something which is famous/expensive? Difficult to say. Some new designs (I've called them that because the work 'original' could confuse in this context) certainly AREN'T offensive styling-wise and some are very attractive and well executed (I'd include the Bertini in that camp)
Disagree on the Bertini - rear end treatment was really good but any angle from the front is - and I'm being brutally honest here I know - like a melted jelly. It has no style at all - no proper headlight treatment or design.
Keeping the original door skins was also a mistake - I've not seen a front and rear clip kit that has successfully integrated the original doors. The tribute Kobra, the Retroforza and Bertini - they never flow properly.
But do replicas (c/f new designs) sell more because they are 'better looking' or because they are a 'safe bet' for resale, or merely because they are replicas of something which is famous/expensive? Difficult to say. Some new designs (I've called them that because the work 'original' could confuse in this context) certainly AREN'T offensive styling-wise and some are very attractive and well executed (I'd include the Bertini in that camp)
Like any audience, there are different motivations and opinions, not to mention taste. Most of us (I think) buy what really appeals to us. The classic replicas mostly do that in abundance. Traditionally, kit builders recognised that they would not recover the cost and effort when they came to sell, but went ahead nevertheless. It looks like F***** are expediting a closure of high added value offerings. In any event, there will be limited customers after such high priced options, so the rush to get something built and supply it into the market will likely quickly oversupply.
Some will still be able to turn a profit by buying very cheap donors, knowing that they will not be holding on to the end product. This would suit the builder who gets most satisfaction from building rather than owning, as it minimises the overall cost of their hobby. Nothing wrong with this, but I want mine to be a robust, longer term keeper.
At best, getting your investment back is the most likely medium term outcome I guess. Take the Aristocats for example. For most, long term prices are not as "collector" cars.
Identifying the niche can be hard though. Bertini had a nice looking offering that appeared to be well put together. It was also well supported by the kit media. Looks like they struggled to get past a dozen or so units sold though, even at a price that (based on Tribute changes) was £1,000 too low. I think the Tribute and later DNA approach to models differentiates enough why you would spend over £10k on top of the donor for what is still a Z3.
I think the Bertini project proved the Z3 as being a suitable donor car for a panel swop kit. The kit car media picked up on this and were happy to promote it as such. As Smash mentioned, the styling wasn't quite there ( it looked like a "Kit Car"), that alone would put people off a purchase. So many kit manufacturers have fallen by the wayside because of quirky styling, its no good making a car so niche that only a few people buy a kit, but it happens all the time in this industry.
The Tribute products have gone on to promote the Z3 base car, that it is a sound platform for attractive body swop conversions and is selling in reasonable numbers.
That's all for now, more later.
Chassis jig and two chassis built.
Molds are completed and two bodies done. The photos are of the proto. Believe it or not, that's a Cobra windscreen.
I don't suppose there is any update on the present/future status of DNA?
I was very impressed with their products and talent. It would be a great shame if they moved on to other ventures. Particularly as they had told me that they were working on a kit for a Fezza 275 (my dream car).
Perhaps if they were less obvious in their references to the original product less heat would be caused. Not really knowing the problem makes it hard to think of a cure sadly.
I also would love to know what the story is, as I spoke to Brian at great length late last year about purchasing a 250 cal kit. I went to Stoneleigh last year specially to see the 250, I even went and got myself a mortgage to pay for the build!! Then suddenly nothing!
I do hope there is a very good reason for this behaviour.
At least, unlike someone here, I didn't go and buy a Z3 (although very nearly)!
On DNA's "new" website there is strangely no phone number, only an info email address. Also DNA have not responded to any threads on DNAOC which is sort of their forum.
Hi all just read through all this thread with interest .. I have 250 kit and a 2.8 Z3 in my unit .. waiting to be built, it was one of the first bodies he produced..
I have been working abroad and just returned.. and intend to build it this year and just need some of the interior bits, obviously I can find them myself but was going to get them from Brian for convenience.
I have just left Brian a message .. not had a reply yet but expecting to.
On the message I did ask him (as all the Ferrari stuff has disappeared from his site), if they had given him a bit of a Tug.. it is a shame if he has gone dark he is a really nice guy and works bloody hard for very little monetary gain..
Will keep and eye on this link :-) V good forum and V educated comments
Is anybody based around Berkshire do you guys ever meet up?
Just dug this up on Design Protection Interesting !!
Design protection in the EU
Directive on the legal protection of designs
To ensure better coexistence and consistency of the systems of design protection in individual EU countries, the EU adopted Directive 98/71/EC on the legal protection of designs in 1998. The objective of the Design Directive is to ensure that registered design rights give the right holder equivalent protection in all EU countries.
Community design protection
Limiting design protection to the territory of individual EU countries could have led to a division of the internal market and would have constituted an obstacle to the free movement of goods. To prevent this, a unitary design right was established by Regulation No 6/2002 on Community design in 2002.
The Regulation brought into being a one-off, inexpensive procedure for registering designs with the European Union Intellectual Property Office (EUIPO). Those registering designs are granted the exclusive rights to use the design and to prevent any third party from using it anywhere in the EU for up to 25 years. The Regulation also provided for 'Unregistered Community Designs' that under certain conditions can also benefit from protection from deliberate copying without prior registration with the EUIPO. In both cases, to be eligible for protection, designs must be new and must have an individual character. The aim of the Community design system is to ensure accessible design protection that suits the needs of all types of enterprises in the EU.
Hi all just read through all this thread with interest .. I have 250 kit and a 2.8 Z3 in my unit .. waiting to be built, it was one of the first bodies he produced..
I have been working abroad and just returned.. and intend to build it this year and just need some of the interior bits, obviously I can find them myself but was going to get them from Brian for convenience.
I have just left Brian a message .. not had a reply yet but expecting to.
On the message I did ask him (as all the Ferrari stuff has disappeared from his site), if they had given him a bit of a Tug.. it is a shame if he has gone dark he is a really nice guy and works bloody hard for very little monetary gain..
Will keep and eye on this link :-) V good forum and V educated comments
Is anybody based around Berkshire do you guys ever meet up?
I am sure there is nothing preventing you from your build. I am not going to discuss badges of course. There not that many DNA 250s around now so yours is quite 'rare'. Enjoy the build. There are a few people in Berkshire with 250SWBs or other kits so there would be some like minded people about Im sure
Thanks for the encouragement .. I have all main bits and to be honest I quite like sourcing and making bits .. so not really a problem ..
I'm not bothered in slightest about any copy-write protection. OME stuff only usually comes up when cars are blatantly offered for sale by an auction house or dealer with badges .. I remember when you could not buy Ferrari badges without taking the Log Book with you to Marranello in Staines
