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Had my first real run with the car yesterday in a big 60 mile loop over the Black Mountains. The weather was perfect and given my lack of any heat shielding between the engine bay and cabin, I was quite warm the whole time.
I've settled into the car's performance now and it was as I thought, I just wasn't rev-ing the nuts off it and had spent too much time in an M3. Above 3500 to 4000 rpm it does really take off and the exhaust note up at high revs is beautiful, a nice pure howl. I also managed to find the limit of the tyres on some nice mountain hair pins and the car is so smooth and predictable drifting the back end out. You can pretty much steer it on the throttle in 2nd. I had one brown trouser moment where I came over the brow of a hill to find some twit driving up the middle of a full width road more on my side than his. Forgetting I had no ABS one of the front wheels locked up on the dirt at the side of the road but the car was still very controllable.
A couple of things that I could do with some help/thoughts on:
1. My water temps were 100 most of the time creeping up a tiny bit at speed in 5th. The sensor is in the head in the original location. This was odd because they should go down with the air over the radiator and the lower revs. I'm not having much luck finding a good guide for what the operating temp should be. I had 90 in my head. It may simply be that because I have no louvres in the bonnet yet, there is no where for the air to escape thus lowering the rad's efficiency.
2. My fan comes on at too low a temp. I think it was an 85C sensor so I'd like to raise that a little. It's on pretty much the whole time the car is running. It also is on full speed so I may either move to a duel temp sensor or wire in a resistor to slow it down when activated by the sensor with my dash switch giving me full speed.
3. I have a weird non start issue when the engine is hot. Not the normal "cranking but no start". I turn the key and the lifter pump starts, volt meter reads 12.X. You press the start button, the starter clicks once then every thing dies and there is no power at all. You turn the ignition off, remove the key and switch the ignition on again and the volt meter reads 0, the lifter pump doesn't come on, nothing. You wait a five minutes and it fires up first time. My initial thought was a starter motor issue but given the other symptoms, I think it must be a fault in the ignition barrel itself. It's just odd that it has only happened twice and both times when the engine is warm. If this does prove to be the case I'll re-wire a separate ignition switch and use the key purely to control the steering lock.
4. My little Odyssey PC680 racing battery truly is dead. I've had some problems with it self discharging even when not connected down to under 11V. I've spent some time over the last week manually charging with a bench supply but although you can charge it to 12.6V, it discharges disconnected within 3 days. A new one is on order. I'm assuming that this has happened due to my bad maintenance of it (leaving it connected with a slow drain for too long) but I may still try and claim under the guarantee as it's now done just 120 miles.
5. The car puts as big a smile on other peoples faces as it does the driver's.
My M20 engine rarely goes above 80. I tjink louvers in the bonnet sides are essential to let the hot air out. Interestingly I get very little heat through the bulkhead - I think thats a sign....
I would also check the gauge itself. Its not unknown for them to be innacurate....
Had my first real run with the car yesterday in a big 60 mile loop over the Black Mountains. The weather was perfect and given my lack of any heat shielding between the engine bay and cabin, I was quite warm the whole time.
............
5. The car puts as big a smile on other peoples faces as it does the driver's.
Great to see you out enjoying your Sportster. You've got some stunning countryside to explore!
I guess we now know that old gearbox did work OK
And I assume your propshaft is nowworking fine?
I shouldn't worry about what temperature your gauge reads so long as it settles at a stable value and doesn't boil over at speed or in hot summer traffic.You might find the lack of louvres a bit challenging in summer traffic jams?
Do you think the 'non-starting' issue is related to the battery issue? If it has an internal thermal overload switch it might be cutting out and resetting when it gets cooler? Not that I know anything about these new batteries Next time it happens, try your headlights to isolate where the issue might be.
...peter
yep, Wales is not short on good driving roads. The gearbox is fine as far as I can tell and the prop seems sorted too. There's still a little vibration but I'm putting that down to stiff suspension, wheel fine balance and general buffeting at speed. It's not the most aerodynamic shape. Passengers don't seem to feel it but I'm very fussy about these things.
I don't actually think the issue is the battery. You don't even get the warning lights up on the dash and there would be enough power to manage that. My new battery is in the post so we'll confirm that soon enough. I think it must be a problem with the ignition barrel though why it only happens after driving the car for a while is very strange
I may check the calibration on my temp sensor and gauge. It may be just out a bit though they were a matched pair. Some of my gauges such as the fuel level have little adjuster screw in the side for calibration so I'll look into that.
I think you're right though Peter, it's not boiling over and staying pretty stable so may be nothing to worry about. I'll have to see if there's somewhere local that can do some louvres for me as a trip to Marlin is a bit far just for that.
Without being too alarmist, but is the alternator okay, sometimes when they are on the way out they can act like an electric motor and drain your battery even when the engine is off. Have you checked by disconnecting the positive terminal and bridging the battery terminal to the lead with your multi meter, you should not have a high reading voltage wise if you do it's time to investigate the drain. Check alternator output on tick over and again at half revs, if it's around 14.5 you're okay.
yeah I looked at the alternator when trying to find the slow drain as I'd read that a dodgy diode in the rectifier circuit can allow current to flow the wrong way. By bridging the disconnected -ve battery lead and the -ve terminal with the engine off I picked up a 1 second fluctuating current draw of 5 to 25 mA . By a process of elimination, disconnecting the alternator, pulling fuses and relays etc I narrowed it down to the flasher unit. When I pulled that out it dropped to a steady 3mA draw that went down to 2mA when I disconnected the clock. I'm assuming that residual draw is the DME. 3mA would be fine but 25mA will add up really quickly on a little 16Ahr battery. I've since picked up a replacement second hand flasher on ebay only to be unable to recreate the problem which is a bit frustrating. In the meantime I'm pretty sure that is what has knackered my battery as the manual specifically says that slow long term draw will kill it.
My alternator belt is squealing a lot anyway, I think due to a small misalignment and poor manual tensioning. I've ordered a replacement mini 40A Daihatsu Charade alternator in pursuit of the holy grail of M50 engined Sportster owners - having the Alternator on the correct side of the engine. That may improve battery charging performance too.
For less than £20 you can get a float battery charger, I use one on my car all through the winter without any problems, cheaper in the long run. Hope the new battery works out.
Phil
I've finished installing my new mini 40A denso alternator and it seems to be sticking out a better voltage than the old one, steady 14.3 vs more like 13.5-14V on the old one. I haven't taken the car out for a proper test yet but but there are no squeals, chirps or sight of any misalignment so hopefully this will help with my battery issues.
When I removed the old alternator it was a bit grumbly and free spinning so I think the bearings were on their last legs anyway. The idler pulley I had in there still feels nice and tight so I don't think that was a problem.
If the belt had been slipping a lot that could also explain my hot engine as the pump may not have been turning enough
The alternator seems to be working nicely. It struggles a bit at idle when you have a lot of current draw e.g. Fan and headlights going but once over ~900rpm it settles off nicely at 14V+. I may look at ways of artificially raising the idle but apart from the fan dropping speed and the lights dimming a bit, it runs ok off the battery when you're waiting at junctions etc (or you can just blip the throttle a bit).
My other electrical problem with the non-starting is still apparent though. It happened on a stone cold engine yesterday so it's not a heat soak thing. I'm going to fit a stand alone ignition switch to rule out the ignition barrel. I've done some reading and this is the most suspect part. Yesterday, because it happened at home I was able to experiment and found that the voltage reading at the battery was 12.8V which was mirrored at the starter and alternator. You then turn the ignition on, the pump runs up and the warning lights come on. You then hit the start button, the starter clicks once and the whole system dies. At this point testing the battery still gives 12.8V but if you test at the starter and alternator you'll read 1.5V, not even enough to light the warning lamps. Then, with no pattern to what you tap, wiggle or tighten in terms of connections, you'll get the full voltage back. Try starting again and it dies. It took me 20 minutes to get it going from cold, started first time after sitting for 30 minutes when hot and then another 20 minutes of mucking around the 3rd time I started it warm a few hours later. It's all rather confusing really ...
The fact you have some voltage albeit low means it has to be a poor connection. Have you checked the starter solenoid? Normally this also behavesas a relay switching tge feed to the starter.
Ian,
I learnt an interesting trick from an RAC man one day. If you hear the click of the solenoid, but the starter doesn't turn, then turn the key and whack the starter with a hammer at the same time (via a long drift if your starter is as inaccessible as mine and it probably needs two of you). If the starter then turns it's likely the starter is on its last legs.
I had a random failure of the starter on my Sportster. But it worked when I whacked it. I changed the starter and have had no problem since. I didn't measure any voltages though so can't comment on the numbers you get.
And now I've just read your original post on this and maybe it sounds a bit more complex than a simple starter problem. But it's probably worth trying to eliminate it if you can.
The fact you have some voltage albeit low means it has to be a poor connection. Have you checked the starter solenoid? Normally this also behaves as a relay switching the feed to the starter.
Robin
I agree.
Have you checked the battery ground connection to the chassis and the engine ground strap?
I think you're all right about the bad connection. On Sunday I thought that I'd cured the problem by tightening the starter motor cable post as it seemed a little loose. I assumed that the heat from the engine had worked it free. But when I hit the same problem a few hours later it was fiddling with the positive terminal on the battery that did the trick.
My battery posts, rather than the soft lead ones you get on normal batteries are solid brass screw in ones that taper slightly. As far as I can tell the clamps on the cables are not tapered so I'm wondering if this is enough for them to work loose. If you test the voltage near the battery but not on the terminals it still reads 12.8V but maybe the surge of power for the starter is enough to dislodge it. You can slowly turn the clamps on the posts which doesn't bode well. I may screw the B+ cable direct to the battery using a ring terminal rather a clamp and see if that improves things.
I'm really hoping that the loose connection is not on the terminals under the scuttle as that will mean an annoying amount of dismantling. I'm starting to regret burying so much of the electrics in inaccessible places.
Battery connection sounds ok but the way to test it is to put the meter on it when cranking the engine. Then you can see if there is a significant voltage drop. As V = IR when cranking you will be drawing 100's of amps. Evdn a resistance of 0.05 ohm will produce a significant voltage drop.
I may have found the culprit. The fuse-able link I'd installed showed signs of arcing on the back of the ring terminal which indicates it was not making a good enough contact for the current surge when starting the engine but may have been ok for low power stuff and charging the battery. I've removed the link and bolted the two ends of the cable together. The engine has had a few successful starts with no issues seen so I'm hoping that's the problem solved. Only time and testing will tell though.
I'm pretty certain my starting issue is now solved. It's fired up over 10 times now hot and cold without a hitch. Thanks for the pointers, saves me wiring a separate ignition switch (was my next port of call).
I've just got the cooling issue to sort out now. I pulled out my temp sensor and instrument panel and bench tested it at a range of voltages between 12 and 14V. The gauge its pretty accurate; the resistance of the sensor looks nothing like the VDO literature but it works. At 14V it reads correctly all the way down to 70 degrees. I went out for a drive this afternoon and the engine was hovering around 95-100 depending on whether I was driving hard or coasting. When I got back I put my hand on the radiator top hose to find it scorching and very firm to the touch. The Rad top tank was painful to touch (and was leaking a little coolant under pressure from the cap seal). The bottom hose was at the ambient temp of the engine bay and the rad bottom tank was positively chilly. The rad didn't feel at all warm until halfway up and was only getting hot in the upper third/quarter. So it looks pretty conclusive that either the thermostat is not opening or the rad is well and truly blocked, which is pretty unlikely.
I'm just amazed that it hasn't over heated more. The DME must have been jumping in and helping with timing etc. Fixing this may therefore have a positive effect on performance too.
I've ordered a new 92C and 87C thermostat to experiment plus I'm going down to Marlin on Friday to get the louvres cut in the bonnets. Hopefully my cooling woes will soon be over
I've just finished ripping the thermostat out and testing it in a pan on the stove. It opens nice and wide...at 98 degrees! That explains a lot. It then slowly starts to close around 97 degrees to 88 degrees though this is without the spring on the back pushing on the block so it would probably close up around 95 in the car. I had to hold a lid down on the pan to build up pressure with steam and scalding water spitting everywhere just to get it to reliably open at all.
It has no markings on it indicating the operating temperature. Obviously a mistake or a dodgy part. I seem to remember when I bought it as a kit with the housing and seals, they forgot to actually include the 'stat and sent it on later. Probably just grabbed one randomly off the shelf.
Rebuilt the cooling system with the 88 degree thermostat yesterday and the car is holding ~91 degrees nicely now. I did the little trick of drilling a 4mm hole in the top of the thermostat outer ring to make filling and bleeding the system easier too. The last piece of the puzzle is to swap out the fan switch. My current one is mounted in the top tank and set for 92 on / 82 off so it triggers too early and then never switches off. If mounted in the bottom tank this wouldn't be an issue. Rather than go to the hassle of getting the rad modified, I've ordered a new switch from a Peugeot 405 which has 97-92 and 101-96 settings. This way I should be able to ensure that the fan comes on only if the rad is struggling rather than the engine just running at the normal temp.
My under bonnet (and my feet) temps don't seem to have gone down much since getting the bonnet louvres cut but this will come in to play more on really hot days.
Just a bit of an update on the Sportster running in period. I've now covered over 500 miles and things seemed to be going well... until this week, when I had two separate breakdowns.
The first related to the copper coolant pipe that runs from my header tank to the back of the water pump. The front end of the pipe has no bead on it but is just held in with a jubilee clip. This proved not to be good enough and it popped out last Sunday when I was about 6 miles from home on the start of an outing as the weather was so good. I noticed my temps hitting 110 so pulled over and found coolant all over the side of the block. I had no tools with me so unfortunately had to call the RAC as I couldn't even get the side panel off the bonnet. Fortunately the incident happened half a mile past a pub so I limped the car back there, call the the RAC and settled down with a pint in the sun for an hour and a half wait. It took 10 minutes to get the hose back on so I just need to look for a more reliable fix long term.
The second breakdown happened just 4 days later on Thursday evening when I was out road testing the car after draining the tap water out and refilling with coolant. I was about 4 miles from home after a good 25 mile loop, went to pull out at a junction and couldn't find any gears. I coasted into a bus stop and realised that the gear linkage had come off somewhere. I initially thought it was the bush at the rear as I could move the stick up and down quite freely. This was not the kind of thing that was going to be fixable on the side of the road given the linkage is buried above the exhaust and the propshaft and I was loath to call the RAC twice in 4 days. I managed to force the car into gear using one hand to fix the base of the stick and luckily it turned out I'd found 4th. Given the car is so light, I was able to rev the engine, slip the clutch and pull away just trying to avoid coming to a complete stop where possible. When I got the car up on stands yesterday it turned out to but the front of the gear stick carrier arm had come away from the top of the box. The pin that held it in place was completely missing. An M8 bolt and a nyloc soon sorted that out and the car now changes gear smoother than ever.
One of the things I really need to prioritise is the suspension settings. Although it handles great on a good smooth road, as soon as you get any undulations on less maintained B roads, the back end grounds out with a spine shattering jolt and steering and back end get very skittish.
I also invested in a GoPro camera that I've mounted on the top of the roll over bar using a pair of exhaust clamps. I always promised myself I'd buy one once the car was finished. The built in mic was useless as all you got over 20mph was wind noise so I've been playing with two external mics placed in different places around the car. One under the bonnet next to the scuttle and one inside the boot seems to give the best result so far
Quick fix for the copper coolant pipe is to solder a compression olive onto it, or sacrifice a compression fitting by tightening it up on the end of your pipe and then remove it and carefully cut off the nut left on the pipe.
Left with one swaged end you can force the rubber pipe over and fasten with a hoseclip.
That's a good idea. I was thinking of soldering half a straight joiner but that would make the pipe a little too large on the OD for my hose. The olive sounds like the best plan.
I had a similar experience to you with a 8 mm pipe sliding off, and after searching around the garage found an old pipe with an olive attached, and therefore no more problems and that was 15 years ago.
I whizzed down to screwfix this afternoon and picked up a bag of 22mm olives and soldered one on each end of the pipe. I was worried that I was going to have real trouble getting the tight silicone hoses over the ends but I found a tube of silicone grease in my tool chest and with that smeared on, they went in no problem.
Fingers crossed that will be the last of this particular issue (and any others for a while)
Next time it happens, try your headlights to isolate where the issue might be.
