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You wouldnt be the same micha that contacted me telling me that my Sammio Spyder was way over priced and that you have seen them sell for much, much less and could I take an offer around £3000?
Aaah , I see that Micha has a vested interest in low priced Sammio's !!
I know a man locally who can build you a three grand Sammio .....he's just finishing one of his superb coffee tables and then he's free.....
Seriously though , everyone is entitled to their opinion , we all have values in our mind for certain things , I follow the Classic American scene with interest and some of the valuations people put on very average cars just baffle me ...
If you strongly believe the value you put on the Sammio Spyders , thats cool , just holds on in there and you never know , one might come up in that range........
thats maybe the reason why not many sammio´s profit from an "expensive" body off restoration, rather than a quick re-body on a minimum financial budget with only 1 major focus "passing the mot"..
I'm sorry matey but knowing exactly how involved and expensive a Sammio build is (as i've done one) and especially when compared to what the average classic car owner will do on a 'rebuild' then i'm going to call cobblers on your comment. As even if you just look through all the build threads on this forum they don't seem back up your opinion.
While I will obviously agree that there are builders who do go the "quick-n-easy" route and just do the rebody (i'd personally intended on going that route myself before getting sucked-in to the rebuild) , the vast majority of people also seem to "get the bug" during their builds and end up being not far off complete nut-n-bolt restorations and you can't get more expensive than that. Just don't tell me wife!
Obviously i'm biased as i've been through this process and so I'm a bit defensive (i.e. this response isn't a personal dig at you, I'm not like that!!) I just know from first hand experience how involved a Sammo build is and from all the info on this forum and having personally met and talked-to quite a few other builders/owners, i'd say that in the large their experiences back me up.
My major inspiration for finally building myself a fifties (style) sports racing car was watching TV celebrity chef James Martin in 'The Real Italian Job'.
For those who haven't seen it, he buys an old Maserati racer and pays the pros to restore it for him - I believe the engine rebuild alone cost £200k.
He then pays a racing driver to drive it for him and enters the classic Mille Miglia with the intention of selling the car on for a substantial profit once it finishes the race.
Half way round the first stage his rebuilt engine drops a valve, and, after an investment of just shy of a million quid, he has to withdraw from the race. By way of a 'thank you' to his driver he buys her an extremely expensive book about the racing Maseratis, where he discovers that in every race his model ever entered they failed to finish due to dropped valves...
So I thought to myself, 'I bet I could have more fun than James on a fraction of his budget'. And even though I have'nt finished my car yet, I already have.
Add: the price of a beetle; £3k to build an engine with as much power as my Vitesse lump; £650 for a screen and frame; £600 for replica lights; £500 for replica trim and badges; ££££ to get it through the IVA; etc. Bye Bye £15k
I love the Chesil Speedster and I'd coveted one for a while. However, what I have never liked about replicas is that they are just that. When somebody asks, "What is it?", you have to respond with, "It's a replica of....". With the Sammio, it's a true Special. It's inspired by a D24, but it's still a special. And it doesn't cost £15k.
how many kitcars are sold for a bargain price, soon after the first 1 or 2years driving. 6-8k return from a 15-18k investment. its a shame but its the reality.
How many new cars are sold for a bargain price, soon after the first 1 or 2 years driving? £6-8k return from a £15-18k investment. It's a shame but it's the reality.
Sorry Dave, just getting a bit disheartened by the nay sayers.
I don't think any of us are building these cars as an investment and the biggest financial hit I ever took was the day I drove a brand new Mercedes Benz off the dealer forecourt I won't be doing that again, but I'd happily build another Sammio.
Not wishing to sound like some born-again hippy but we shouldn't be trying to place a monetary value on everything.
My well-being has been helped enormously by having a cave to which I can retreat to practise my problem-solving and planning, explore my creativity, learn new skills, and invent anger management techniques (usually involving a hammer).
At the end of the adventure I shall have something that I can be pleased with (possibly even proud of) and I can say, "I built that." That in itself will be worth every penny of the modest outlay.
If the sad day comes when I have to sell it, I shall have to take whatever anybody will pay me for it - for that is what it will be worth. That's life. But, I will still have built it.
As a financial "investment", a kit/special has the same chance of providing a return as John Terry has of becoming a UN Goodwill Ambassador. However, the benefits to your health will mean that you will live a longer more contented life because you have actually done something with your spare time.
Now, where is my dream catcher and those sacred Mayan crystals..............
Not that I know anything about football but I heard that John Terry's applying for the chair of the Commision for Racial Equality while volunteering as a relate counsellor. What a nice guy...
Not wishing to sound like some born-again hippy but we shouldn't be trying to place a monetary value on everything.
Similar thing here. I always fancied building a car just to see what was involved. I was originally planning on a 1957 Vanwall F1 but realised the scale of what was involved so went for a G46 instead.
To me this is a hobby. Another hobby I have is mountain biking and I have mates with two or three bikes with a combined value of over £10,000, my three bikes cost about half of that and are now worth perhaps 1/5th. I still think it is money well spent as I have enjoyed the riding, why should I look to make money out of my hobby?
My wife's few is not quite the same when she sees the bills (for bikes or cars) but she is happier for my hobbies to have tyres than tits.
Which all goes to show that if you want a Sammio the way YOU want it, then YOU build it .
The car was built to please the builder himself and was only sold due to a change in circumstances.
None of your list would stop anyone having fun in the car.
Micha, if the car is so bad why did your mate bother?
Then again he maybe knew he had an expert to call on that could fix all this shoddy work.....
Always a pleasure to read you positive posts..
Pops
Micha,
You kind of answer your own questions ...
I cannot and would not comment on the quality of that build but as you say ...'' the one that appears to be nicely built and trimmed...''
My experiences over the years have proven to me that shiny paint and new trim doesn't make a good car necessarily...In the Hot Rod circles , there are many beautifully finished cars that look and photograph like a million dollar car ....some of these cars have got the worst engineering you have ever seen ..there was a string of very dangerous Boyd style cars built in the U.K. about 10-15 years ago ...they won lots of prizes , multiple magazine features etc...but were undriveable !
Then you get a 'survivor' style Rat that looks like dung but is beautifully constructed underneath...
What gripes me is that you are very opinionated about the whole concept....it is a low buck bit of fun if you want it to be or you can build a totally new TUV style car.....or anything inbetween....
I get the impression from your postings that you want a perfectly finished , totally refurbed , period perfect , better than new car for the value you put them at of around three grand !!
Now you can have the perfect car or you can have the three grand car ....but you won't get both !!
Now I may be getting you wrong ....I do make mistakes , but I kind of feel that maybe you are on the wrong forum.....
The best way to show everyone the correct path is to build the car you think the Sammio should be , everything engineered and finished as it should be , decent paint etc.....no one will be looking for absolutely perfect , perhaps something like Phil9's or Barry's from Norfolk....and then so that we know you are a man who stands by your statements , an honourable man and not just an antogonist ....you must offer it for sale on various forums for the high end price of three grand !!
To get you started ...and I am sure Andy will help me here , we can offer you a decent discount on your kit as long as you post a FULLY comprenhensive build diary on here showing everyone the correct way to build your car....
micha, There is no doubt that there are a number of vehicles out there that have been built purely for personal pleasure and with the best of intentions. This doesn't mean that they are built in a professional manner nor are deemed to be safe (even with an MOT). Buyer beware.
I have seen pictures of welded parts and chassis repairs on this website which the builder might find acceptable and would seem to hold the parts together that other builders might find less than impressive.
The level of the standard of build varies. If during inspection a car shows careless over-spray, badly ground down pigeon sh*t welds, damaged screw / bolt heads, loose or badly tied wiring, poor hoses, uncared for engine then unless it was very cheap and for parts only or for a strip down and rebuild it would not be conscionable.
There is a real danger that a badly built car (not subject to IFA) is sold onto an unsuspecting person, which due to the negligence of the builder, causes a serious accident, with the possibility that ALL altered vehicles will require an IFA....
I think we owe it to everyone to build the best car we can and if in any doubt get a professional in.
micha, I'm assuming that you are interested in Sammio vehicles and have a genuine reason for your postings, the reason for which I am unclear. If you are simply being misunderstood then I apologise, but if you are posting simply to inflame or cause trouble then you are being as naive as three uninvited girls in a Cathedral broadcasting a an anti-government song against an ex-KGB thug who happens to be the most powerful person in the country residing not more than 500 metres away, not sure you (or they) really thought this through.
Micha, the points you raise about poor (in your opinion) workmanship is evident in all forms of motoring not just in Sammio/kit car ownership. The first car I ever bought was an MG Midget which looked ok on first appearance and even drove and sounded great, but it still had some major chassis faults which we not immediately apparent on roadside inspection. I have since owned a few Italian motors which although more modern were all bought second hand and I was fully aware that there may be stuff that needs sorting out even if the previous owner has stated that everything had been 'sorted'. Classic cars, of which the Sammio range are based on are, in the main, owned and repaired by enthusiastic amateurs and hobbyists this is one of the reasons why cars devalue and it is a major reason why I can afford to drive the cars I do. Look at the price of classics which are documented as being fully restored by a professional garage and those which are not.
I do not understand why your mate bought the car if he was so concerned about overspray indicating shoddy workmanship etc. He sounds like he knows at least a bit about cars so surely the old adage of following gut instinct should have applied?
What these cars enable is the ability to build a car to a standard that you are happy to drive. The forum provides an information resource where more experienced engineers are able to provide advice and in some cases their time to help out when problems arise or a task is beyond a builders skill-set. By having a build dairy/thread it also gives any prospective buyers the ability to look through and see the standard of build as it progresses. However, without doubt the best way to go about having one of these cars is to build it yourself to your own standards.
Constantly talking the marque down suggests that you have some sort of agenda against the company or individual.
(Just to add, I have no attachment to the company or any of its' products)
hwell: 
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