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This is a read-only archive of the old Madabout Kitcars forum. New posts and replies are no longer possible, but every thread is still here to browse and read.

Geoff's 250 SWB Replica Build

21 Sep 2014, 1:26pm
mgb donor

I love the swb shape and looking at the mgb it seems a great donor. The z3 is good but the modern windscreen shows up the modern element. I don't possess a photoshop programme but would really like to know what the 250 swb would look against the mgb base apart form the wheelbase the roadster would make a good period donor.

Can someone fit the swb side profile on the mgb profile line drawing as per the previous one done on the z3.
21 Sep 2014, 2:33pm
striker1660 wrote:
I love the swb shape and looking at the mgb it seems a great donor. The z3 is good but the modern windscreen shows up the modern element. I don't possess a photoshop programme but would really like to know what the 250 swb would look against the mgb base apart form the wheelbase the roadster would make a good period donor.

Can someone fit the swb side profile on the mgb profile line drawing as per the previous one done on the z3.


Striker, spend 30 mins and read the whole thread. Everything's been discussed ad nauseum ;-)
21 Sep 2014, 2:51pm
I recently saw a photo of an Austin Healey 3000 which was fitted with a period fixed head roof which was clearly modeled on a SWB. It retained the big healey front end. It looks amazing!
Possibl in C&SC a month or so back?

Al
23 Sep 2014, 10:09am
Here's a good replica I spotted at the Ferrari racing day at Silverstone, mind you it is a rebody of a 250 GTE!


23 Sep 2014, 10:49am
Nice colour and a very pretty car. Converting a 250GTE into a 250SWB is a bit like turning a silk purse into a silk purse though, whereas the Z3 is a proper sows ear of a car and really, desperately needs to be given the Tribute SWB treatment (imho).
23 Sep 2014, 12:45pm
Mister Towed wrote:
whereas the Z3 is a proper sows ear of a car (imho).


Especially when it has a 1.9l motor:boink:
23 Sep 2014, 12:53pm
Well if the engineers had done a good job it could of had 170/80bhp like the Honda vtec equivalent . 1.8 i think it was.
23 Sep 2014, 8:09pm
zagmad wrote:
Well if the engineers had done a good job it could of had 170/80bhp like the Honda vtec equivalent . 1.8 i think it was.


I hope you don't mean the above replica spotted by Neil?
23 Sep 2014, 10:33pm
Nope i meant the thing about the 1.9 z3being a slow to respond. Maybe it just needs a good thrashing to get them moving. :-)
24 Sep 2014, 8:06am
I had a 1.8 Intergra Type R which kicked out 197bhp. It was a wonderful car, possibly the best balanced I have ever owned.
24 Sep 2014, 8:20am
Conversion to ?

Mister Towed wrote:
Nice colour and a very pretty car. Converting a 250GTE into a 250SWB is a bit like turning a silk purse into a silk purse though, whereas the Z3 is a proper sows ear of a car and really, desperately needs to be given the Tribute SWB treatment (imho).


Agreed. People did that conversion because it was easy and the result was more valuable than the one they started with. My own preference is for the Ferrari 275GTB shape but the Z3 conversion is quite difficult because the profile is so different. The Z3 wheelbase is 45 mm more, the 275 bonnet is mu-u-uch longer and the windscreen curves around into the door opening.
24 Sep 2014, 8:43am
For several decades now BMW, in common with other European volume car manufacturers, have followed a strategy of offering each model with a range of engines to attract buyers with different requirements regarding purchase price/insurance/economy/etc.

Thus, Z3's were variously available with:
1.8/118bhp;
1.9(8v)/118bhp;
1.9(16v)/140bhp;
2.0(6cyl)/150bhp;
2.2(6cyl)/170bhp;
2.8(6cyl)/198bhp;
3.0(6cyl)/231bhp;
3.2(6cyl)/321bhp;
3.2(6cyl)/325bhp

Obviously, the smaller, lower powered cars are going to be slower, but not that much slower compared to the entry level six - even the humble 1.8 is only 1.5 seconds slower to 60mph and gets to within 8mph of the two litre's top speed.

Throw a slush box into the mix and things aren't so clear cut. A manual 1.9(16v), the most common (and cheapest) variant, is only 2.2 seconds slower to 60 and 11mph shy of a 2.8 auto's figures. What did BMW do with all that extra capacity and two extra cylinders?

Looking at the figures, they only managed to squeeze another 53
bhp out of a 900cc increase. This gives the 2.8 only 69bhp/litre while the 1.9 pumps out a far more healthy 74bhp/litre, so it's a more highly tuned motor than the wheezy old 2.8, which is clearly underpowered for its capacity.

If only the 2.8 was as well developed as the 1.9 it would make an easy 207bhp, which, coincidentally, is pretty much what Porsche got out of the 2.5 it put in early Boxsters, which are generally considered to be a bit slow.

Unsurprisingly, given its highly tuned nature, the 1.9 is actually half a second faster to sixty than the auto two litre, and there's only 1mph difference in top speed. So a manual 1.9 will easily get away from a 2.0 auto on a fast B road blast. Does that make the 2.0 auto shit?

Only if your sole criteria for making the judgement is speed. This would, of course, mean that the 2.8 is shit compared to the 3.0, which is shit compared to the 3.2M, which is, of course, shit compared to a TVR Cerbera at a similar price point.

I've done a bit of research on the much maligned 1.9 and it seems that its major issue is a heavy flywheel, which blunts its ability to pick up revs. That's it.

As a kit car builder there are other considerations when choosing an engine. I will be building a 250 at some stage in the not too distant future, and, believe it or not, tyre availability will have a major impact on the donor I choose. You see, the wheels I want to fit will be wearing 215/65/15 tyres. Right now, I can only find one 'V' rated tyre of that size while there are a dozen or so 'H' rated options, so I'd be reluctant to use a donor capable of more than 130mph. That limits me to the 1.8, 1.9's or a two litre six.

Having said all of the above, it will, of course, be...

A two litre six.

Call me a hypocrite if you like, but I rather like the noise it'll make. :)
24 Sep 2014, 9:30am
Very good article Mr T, but I think the major issue with the 1.9 is actually WCA!
24 Sep 2014, 10:41am
My views on the 1.9 are just my views. It is a sluggish unresponsive engine that doesn't suit the character of the car.

I am not too fussed about top speeds as they are largely irrelevant during normal use. The 1.9 is slow to respond and doesn't seem to have the torque to give the car any umph. I agree it will make the car move but I am more concerned about how it feels when driving.

I used to have a 1.8 Honda that lacked torque but screamed round to 9,000rpm and was an absolute blast.

I have a 5.5 Supercharged Merc that has so muchg power and torque it makes me giggle.

Two totally different engines with totally different characteristics but both really enjoyable.

Please drive a 1.9 Z3 and then tell me if you can describe the engine as enjoyable. I am relying purely on my experience rather than the numbers published so it is subjective.
24 Sep 2014, 12:49pm
WorldClassAccident wrote:
My views on the 1.9 are just my views. It is a sluggish unresponsive engine that doesn't suit the character of the car.

Please drive a 1.9 Z3 and then tell me if you can describe the engine as enjoyable. I am relying purely on my experience rather than the numbers published so it is subjective.


I'll have to defer to your judgement there as I haven't actually ever driven a BMW of any type.

And you're absolutely right, the character of an engine can make or break a car - I'd far rather drive my wife's Nissan Micra with its rev hungry unburstable 1240cc motor than get back into the XR3i I owned in the eighties with its thrashy CVH, a motor Clarkson described at the time as '...so nasty Moulinex rejected it for its magimix'.

Anyway, it's horses for courses but it'd be a shame to put someone off building one of these cars if all they could afford to insure was a 1.9 and they decided not to bother because of the engine's poor reputation.

Still think the 2.8 is underpowered for its capacity though, especially with a slush box. ;)
24 Sep 2014, 1:06pm
So, getting back to topic, I've just taken delivery of (and read the spots off) a copy of 'Octane' from August 2010, which has a 6 page article focusing on the 1961 SEFAC comp/61 spec. 250SWB, chassis number 2689GT -



So, that's the standard I'll be striving to achieve, not an exact replica but an homage to that car inside and out.

I now really can't wait to see a Tribute SWB in paint with a side window solution I like, and I'm also interested to see the price the kit will be offered at so I can clear the budget with my better half.

Really getting itchy fingers as my spanners languish unused in the garage...
24 Sep 2014, 1:22pm
Afternoon Mister Towed considering what you have already built , that will be one thread i will be looking forward to , do you want to practise your Silver/Grey spraying skills! on a SWB? Geoff .
24 Sep 2014, 1:39pm
casamolino wrote:
...do you want to practise your Silver/Grey spraying skills! on a SWB? Geoff .


Ha ha, afraid I'll have to pass on that, Geoff. It's one thing spraying my own car - if I feck it up I've only myself to blame - but I fear that the stress of trying to get a decent finish on someone else's pride and joy would either kill me or make me do a crap job.

Really looking forward to seeing your car in paint, even if you go with something other than silver. Before you make your final colour choice though, I'll just quote from the afore mentioned Octane article:

"In the California sunlight, the gleaming silver paintwork of 2689 GT shows off the lines to their very best."

Who am I to argue with such journalistic wisdom?
24 Sep 2014, 1:50pm
Are you moving as well!
24 Sep 2014, 2:06pm
I wouldn't mind if you did a bad job on mine long as it was sealed the body from the elements till the spring then could get it done again. With more money saved for a proper job. Gonna take me a while to save up for a decent paint job. Depending if i get any cash from ppi or a rich relative lends me the cash with no interest. But i don't think my uncle reads this so prob wont happen soon prob take me 10 months to save up for a half good paint job including laquer. Might try the roller approach. :-)
24 Sep 2014, 2:13pm
zagmad wrote:
I wouldn't mind if you did a bad job on mine long as it was sealed the body from the elements till the spring then could get it done again. With more money saved for a proper job. Gonna take me a while to save up for a decent paint job. Depending if i get any cash from ppi or a rich relative lends me the cash with no interest. But i don't think my uncle reads this so prob wont happen soon prob take me 10 months to save up for a half good paint job including laquer. Might try the roller approach. :-)


Do it yourself for under £400 including tools -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50L-Air-Compressor-2HP-Direct-Drive-Air-Tank-50-Litre-Oil-Lubricated-50-lit-/371139336599?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item5669a0d997

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Tools-Air-Tool-Set-Kit-Tyre-Inflator-Spray-Gun-Blow-Gun-Airline-RRP-65-/161317499075?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item258f45b0c3

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cellulose-Car-Paint-Jawel-Primer-Thinner-PURE-SILVER-METALLIC-GLOSS-20lt-Kit-/370836956712?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item56579ae628

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Farecla-G3-Rubbing-Compound-Regular-Cutting-Paste-1kg-Tub-Car-Polishing1-/291231955964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43cec6fbfc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTOGLYM-SUPER-RESIN-POLISH-1-LITRE-1L-FREE-FIRST-CLASS-POSTAGE-/161376060614?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2592c344c6

Cellulose is very easy to spray and you can always sell the tools once you've sprayed your car, cutting the cost.

Go on, give it a go. After all, if you're planning to get a pro to spray it again anyway, what have you got to lose? :icon_biggrin:
25 Sep 2014, 7:28am
redratbike wrote:
So a donor like this would be idealhttp://www.gumtree.com/p/bmw/2000-bmw-z3-convertible-e36/1082297943


Great price - an otherwise decent donor with damaged paint/panels is going to be perfect for conversion - but it lacks two qualifications for me:

for simplicity's sake I want the donor to be the same colour as the car will end up (so that'll be silver), meaning I won't have to respray the engine bay/interior/etc;

I also want it to have a/c to keep the cabin temperature comfortable in summer. After all, it's going to have fairly impractical sliding perspex side windows and a black interior, so it will get uncomfortably stuffy on the Cote D'Azur without it. :)
25 Sep 2014, 7:46am
I don't think I will ever get round to building one of these, but if I did, I would go for for picking a donar in the final colour too, it seems
the perfect solution to a lot of niggles.