MadaboutKitcars

Going any where nice Chris ?

I am off to the Canaries tomorrow supposed to be 29c.

So Chris, did any body mount a legal challenge to you when you copied the Jaguar D type ?

The Mistral ?

The Willys coupe ?

The countless hot rods ? you took a Cobra and chopped it about any repercussions there ?

Or is it only ok when you do it ?

For the record I have no intention of becoming a kit manufacturer, I will keep an eye on the letter box then.

Every cobra replica in the UK allegedly original started from a splash of the Arntz cobra. Carroll Shelby didn't get very far...

I am intrigued by your VAT status.

Is this the start of the annual bun fight ???

Can someone put all the toys back in the pram ?

There is an expectation for a Ferrari to be red. Its largely the same with Cobra replica's, they need to be blue and maybe with twin white stripes from front to back.
Paint colour and wheel choice are the two big factors all else being equal when it comes to resale.

Annual ? Seems to be at every full moon these days

Gary - this all from my digging and prior knowledge so that's my caveat!

The 10% rule is a myth (according to UK copyright society). This is about derivative copyright law. The Kali and the Coupe are both derived works from Ferrari. The question is can a derived work have its own copyright? The answer is yes IF it's seen to be substantially different. It's a civil not criminal matter. I'd expect the Kali to be protected but the coupe is questionable - present a photo of a finished car (the No 7 car for example) and then a photo of the original for comparison. Man on Clapham omnibus would think they are the same IMO. I'd expect copyright would likely remain with originators Ferrari and so it would be their call whether they pursued either Tribute or a copy of Tribute. That's the gamble - does the derived work have its own copyright, is it substantially different? You're only going to find that out taking civil action all the way and then the question is does either party have the appetite or financial resource to do that. You can always try a cease and desist letter first as a cheap option and the recipient may bottle it but ultimately it's down to civil action. I guess the tactic for the defendant would be not that they hadn't copied the copy, but that the copy doesn't have any protection in the first place

I see the Tribute defense team are assembling lol,

Look, as it stands if my Wife or Daughter where using my car and had to for some reason stop and open the front clip to check the oil / water etc they would not be able to do that, the front clip is way to heavy for them to lift.

I think this may be why it has pulled so badly where the inner frame is bonded on, remember Bob's had to be repainted for same reason.

All I want to do is improve my car, it is an advert for my buisiness, if some of you have a problem with that then it's your problem not mine.

I have a plane to catch so will leave you to it.

PS. I really think some of you need to look up the definition of the word "Replica"

Just seen Scott's reply.

I am happy to meet any legal challenges head on, I am not one of those people who stick my head in the sand and hope it will go away.

I'm not sure of the details but all the Cobra's that are available or have been over the past 25 years just goes to show there isn't a problem. Yes, Shelby / AC did try to stop them through the courts but failed. If I recall the only thing the replica's weren't allowed to do was use the word " Cobra " by name in advertising material.
I would think Chris has nothing to worry about with his " inspired by " cars over a Z3 base.

I think Jeff is only intending to take a mould so he can make a lighter front end in a similar way that he did to the small bonnet.
Trouble with forums is that things can so easily be taken in the wrong context.

One of the things I like about my Tribute is the fact that it is laid up heavily, to me this would equate to strength but I can see why Jeff made the small bonnet lighter and think that as it is an unstressed part it is a good idea.

When Chris started the 250's he was in uncharted territory, as kits have been finished problems have shown up and with the help of people posting the problems, they have been sorted or work arounds formulated. In an ideal world as soon as a problem is sorted a new mould should be made but obviously this would be far too expensive and just not practical. It is important I feel to keep the kits to an affordable price.

I have enjoyed every moment of my build, all problems were relatively small and when you find a work around very satisfying.
The idea of building a kit on a rusty old Herald or Spitfire just doesn't appeal to me, I've spent too many years working on rusty old cars. The idea of building a kit from scratch is appealing but I would probably get a custodial sentence when dealing with some jobsworth during the IVA examination. Rebodying a Z3 or MX5 just makes so much sense.
I would love to do another with the experience learnt on this one I feel it would be a quick and superior build.

I was saving the bad news on VAT registration until the beginning of the new financial year for Tribute (July). It may be flat rate 8% to start, my accountant is doing his sums.

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread but had a bad couple of bad days. It's good to see that our cars are being appreciated and are fetching decent money. When you factor in the time spent putting them together then improving and detailing them,if you were paying trade rates the values being asked would need to be at least current asking prices, but hey it's our hobby and that's why we do it, I don't think mine will ever be finished (don't let the wife hear that) I was at the Tatton park show a couple of weeks ago, when I got back to my car a guy was taking pics of my car and had left his number on the windscreen, he seemed genuine and offered me £22k for it. I had no intention of selling it (need something to take my mind off my current health issues, which seem to be going well at the moment) I showed him the mag feature of Nubodies cars and gave him Tributes details, so maybe he was interested in one of the current cars up for sale. Remember we have our car for pleasure and its a good hobby too.

So that will be nearly £500 on the 250 SWB and that's on top of the £1000 rise just over a year ago. I thought VAT was 20% at the moment, which would be close on £1000.
If the price has to rise for any reason your product is getting expensive for what is a set of fibre glass panels at the end of the day.

There are no winners on here when it comes to VAT.

Obviously , the price goes up .... not ideal for buyer or seller.
A raised price on the product in no way means Tribute are profiting from that ....potentially the opposite in reality ...

For Tribute , it also means a load of extra paperwork and aggro ...the thankless and unpaid task of collecting revenue for HMRC is very annoying . I , thankfully , get nowhere near it nowadays , but a few years back , when I registered late and got fined for that as well as having to settle a VAT bill that I hadn't charged the customers for ..it nearly finished me .... HMRC said , go back to each customer and ask for the VAT !!
It was 15% then and my average sale was about £300 ...so at a new figure of £345 , I made myself uncompetitive in a market of sellers who were non VAT registered ..

I seem to remember a system where I could charge 5% at the time on a sale , something to do with profit rather than turnover or something ...I may remember that wrong ...but I'm guessing that old 5% deal is the 8% Chris is referring to ...

If you still have the details it might be worth passing them onto Smash as he is looking to sell.

There are various simplified schemas for different business sectors. The "net" basis described above pretty much covers it.

Sorry his number was on a piece of paper which I put in a bin along with my accumulated rubbish from the day he said he was from Manchester I just gave him the info and told him about this web site he seemed happy with that. Trev

Yep, the flat rate scheme where you can't reclaim vat on purchases is the one you are thinking of.

Aaah , yes that makes sense because at the time my main expenditures as a cherished number seller were MOT fees , Govt Transfer fees and car taxation fees ....all VAT exempt from memory , so nothing to claim back ...I am guessing my accountant took the view the VAT I paid on a bit of fuel and some sundry items was negligible and a 5% increase would keep me relatively competitive .....

In my opinion , if thats the case , Chris would benefit from full VAT registration , as his biggest expense will be fibreglass materials which are very expensive , therefore reclaiming some of that VAT against sales VAT charged out can only be a positive thing for him and go someway towards his increased Accountants bills , time spent processing the paperwork etc....

Just my opinion ..... no one wants to see a price increase under any circumstances and 20% is an 'ouch' but it's the downside of a kit that has proved to be very popular and a great success ...... and if these cars are going to regularly start to sell for the figures being bandied about in recent weeks ...everyone is still doing ok .....not many '' hobby build'' cars will even return expenditure ( time and money spent ) , so to return a healthy profit in this market place is quite comforting ....

( I have very quickly done some sums factoring in an average purchase price for a Z3 , KALI KIT INCL. VAT , a fitting fee by myself , a proper paintjob by Jeff H , wire wheels , a healthy sundry and unexpected setback allowance etc. and I can't get over £16-17,000 tops , thats not a ''from'' price , thats worst case scenario ...I don't know what the build agents charge , so may be a bit different ...but that's my guesstimate ... so , £17,000 approx. down , two months later sale of £20-22,000 approx. someone else does all the work , investor just picks the colour etc... and you get a return of about 15-25% minimum on your money after all the fun ...better than any bank ... )

Or just get Jeff to do the whole thing

The only person who knows what Richard's car actually sold for is Richard. "Close to asking" was a response that he knew would get back to the forum. Don't blame him either - it's his business.

I'll find out shortly what the market thinks mine is worth and report back when it's sold

Danny was struggling g to get 12k for his very nice cobra.

Trouble is for around £20k you can get yourself a very nice Cobra with a V8. The Kobra is a nice easy, cheap and quick kit but it is always going to have a price ceiling because of the other replicas available. At the moment you can't buy a 2fifty kit and there is a waiting list for a Tribute. There are also very few around so prices are going to be pushed higher.

The Kobra and 250's whilst a similar idea and a similar product are both very different. Whilst the 250 pulls it off as a replica, the Kobra doesn't do it so well, in fact it doesn't look "right". Its as simple as that, the 250 is a winning formula which is why it is so successful. It will always be worth more than even the very best built Kobra.

You are right about the market segmentation. Just how many people would pay £20k plus for a 250 remains to be seen.

Blimey where have you been? You may scrape a Pilgrim rover 3.5 just about or rough older AK for just over but anything very nice will need nearly 30k upwards

Anyways, I'm MOT'd - detailing next...