MadaboutKitcars

chassis/suspension

hi all

Here's a photo of the later cr suspension they used. copy of the dino.

ian

Hi,
Thank you
Do you have other informations?
Thanks dominique.

Classic Replicas / No pictures

Sorry, all I have for pictures of early chassis/ suspension is a small (low resolution) print screen from his website circ. 2009, Not enough info other than that it's clear the chassis is completely different (and less substantial) from later offering and no discernible suspension parts. / Jon

Hi Jon
Thanks for taking the time to look for the pictures.
I might try jacking the car up onto some tall axle stands and taking some pictures from underneath.
Neil

The CR copy of genuine Dino suspension

Thanks for the photo of the late CR suspension Ian. Its a bit hard to tell but it kinda looks like the mounts for the wishbones are welded to the chassis members? On the real Dino these are bolted on and can be shimmed for adjustment.

I've been toying with the idea of replicating the original design (partly because suspension geometry is beyond my maths and physics skills!) but I guess the originals were designed to take advantage of relatively squishy high profile (70) tyres when radials were a brand new concept. So unless you want to make something with 205/70/14 in HR performance level (good luck finding those now days) then an update of the geometry and wheel size and tyre profile wouldn't hurt.
Cheers
Ross

chassis

Hi

I think cr's later car was more a recreation of the dino. I agree with you that the inboard part looks welded to the chassis. And yes the real one used 'U' shaped washers to pack out the bush/wishbones.
Most kit cars used a bush that has a thread that can be screwed in or out to adjust it instead of adding or removing the 'U' shaped washers. In the case of the dino only the securing nut would need loosening to do the adjustment where as the kit wishbone would need completely dismantling.
I'm going with 16" replica cromadora wheels which allow me a larger choice of braking components. Looking at bespoke alloy uprights which should come with the right kingpin angle and inclination. I'm also copying deon front suspension. But something along the lines of a stratos rear setup.
I'm going to build my chassis in wood first to check everything works-easier to correct alter!!!

Hi,

I have removed rear and front suspensions.
Rear is 200Lbs and front is 450Lbs.

See attached pictures.
I dont understand why front has a Lsb more important than the rear?

If you can help me!!!!

Thanks.

Hi Dodo;

the reason why the spring rate is higher at the front compared to the rear is the different motion ratio that both ends suspensions have. At the rear the ratio is about 1:1 which means that the wheel movement as it moves upwards or downwards is the same as the amount of movement of the spring, so for each inch of wheel travel you have the same amount in inches of spring deflection. This means that the effective spring rate (wheel rate)at the tyre contact patch is the same as the spring´s one.

However, at the front, the motion ratio will be around 1:0,5 which means that the wheel travel is almost the double of the spring deflection and this means that you will be having around 25% of the spring rate as wheel rate.

The actual suspension stiffness is the wheel rate so this means you have a softer suspension at the front than at the rear, even with stiffer springs at the front than at the rear (just a matter of leverage). This also is in connection with the weight suspended on the front axle and on the rear axle, which is different, being around 40% at the front and 60% at the rear, hence the highest resistance needed for the rear axle compared to the front.

hope this helps.
cheers.

Hi,
Thanks for your answer. Then, you think these values are OK? Now, I want to implement in my DEON another engine. I want to put a 6 cylinders 2,5l 24 valves Ford Duratec (170HP) instead of the actual one (Lancia 2l 4 cylinders).
What dou you think about this? Does the rear and front suspensions must be different of the actual one because of the new engine weigth?
Sorry for my English, I'm french!

Best Regards

well, there will be a difference in weight between the two engines, but usually this can be compensated with spring pre-load, re-adjusting the car´s ride height. Now, it seems that your spring preload on your dampers is not adjustable by looking at your pictures. I´d say you could make an improvement and buy a new set of adjustable dampers which allow you to adjust both spring pre-load/ride height and damper resistance. this will be useful not only for the engine change but also for tuning up the suspension further, once the v6 engine is fitted.
I say this because spring rates are not selected according to the weight distribution only. The static weight distribution is the first parameter to consider but only if the car is stationary. When it´s driven, you have weight transfer in acceleration, braking and cornering and this is really what you want to wait and check before making a spring choice to change yours.
rgds.

Thanks.
Yes, I want to change my rear and front suspensions but I dont know what I must buy, this is my problem! Do I should keep my spring or buy new ones? If I buy four new springs, what values of Lbs I must take????
In France, I have not find a company which can provide my the same dampers (mecanical dimensions).
I founded, in England, a company (http://www.protechshocks.co.uk) which sell the good damper (mecanical dimensions).
Regards.

Hi again;
I´d definitely keep the current springs and change the dampers. Once the engine is changed, you´ll be able to adjust ride height and you possibly won´t need to change the springs to set the correct ride height. After driving the car you´ll have feedback to either change front or rear springs if it´s necessary. Any dampers with the same eye to eye total lenght and same travel could be fitted, but if they are adjustable you can tune them up just by turning the knob. I´m familiared with Gaz but there are other brands as Avo, etc. i haven´t tried protech but I think they are pretty good, maybe more expensive. The critical thing here is the adjustability. If they are adjustable, you won´t have problems.
rgds.

Hi,
Can you give me, please, your damper references?
Regards

Sorry, I don´t have them anymore so I don´t know. maybe some other owners may tell you.
However, If you´re sure that the ones you have were fitted to the car just look for same size and travel dampers and you´ll be fine.
rgds.

OK, thanks.

Lotus Europa spring rates

Just as a comparison the spring rates for a Lotus Europa are:
OEM S2, 100lbs/ins Fr, 72lbs/ins R
this is another lightweight fibreglass kit car. The front spring is on a similar angle to the Deon:


and the rear is fairly upright:

Thanks for your informations.

Hi, If someone could give me others brends of dampers, It would be good for me because I'm not in England! Thanks.

Hi
I am building a Classic replicas Dino at the moment. I think the suspension set up is the same as the Deon.
I measured my compressed and extended lengths between the coil over mounting bolts on the car’s suspension and supplied the info to guy over here in the UK who then supplied me with GAZ coil overs.
The details were as follows:
Front:
Coil over extended length 260mm (10”)
Compressed length 180mm (7”)


Rear
Coil over extended length 260mm (10”)
Compressed length 207mm (8”)

On the basis of the above he sent me GAZ shocks model number 100/075 R12-2.
A friend of mine has Protech Coil overs on his Dino. I contacted them before I bought the GAZ ones, Protech were almost double the price of GAZ.

Good luck with the build

Hi, thank you. Can you put, please, some pictures of your car? Regards

I've PM'd you