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States E10 compatible and available as high pressure injection or low pressure.
John
Hmmm...an interesting additional note added to the web page spec but further down it says SAE30R7 which doesn't (as far as I can make out) cope with ethanol enhanced fuels.
Can you share a picture of the marking on the hose and a spec sheet if you have one?,
thanks, Peter
Hi Peter
The photo below shows all the markings (there are no others). I do not recollect receiving a spec. sheet. However, the supplier was Advanced Fluid Solutions Battlbridge, Essex.
I have also sourced braided high pressure hose from Stevson Motors who apparently supply Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, etc with their braided hoses. They are very helpful, and can be contacted on: 0121 472 1702
The photo below shows all the markings (there are no others). I do not recollect receiving a spec. sheet. However, the supplier was Advanced Fluid Solutions Battlbridge, Essex.
I have also sourced braided high pressure hose from Stevson Motors who apparently supply Jaguar, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, etc with their braided hoses. They are very helpful, and can be contacted on: 0121 472 1702
Thanks, Mike. That certainly has the correct marking, so no issue for your IVA test. It was Advanced Fluid Solutions that I had messaged on ebay, but have so far not been able to tell me who the manufacturer is.
I'll try the other guys you mentioned if I get stuck but I've now found a UK supplier who has the pucker Goodyear stuff in stock.
I checked mine this evening, it was from afs and it says "W = FUEL HOSE SAE J30 R6 SUITABLE FOR UNLEADED 5/16".
I'm not so worried about the Ethanol issue for the moment but as it makes no use of the "INJECTION" keyword, is it going to be an issue? It is pretty tough stuff and has reinforcment fabric running through it. I did have a short length of the other non-reinforced stuff and binned it on general principle that it was going to collapse under its own weight let alone take any pressure.
I checked mine this evening, it was from afs and it says "W = FUEL HOSE SAE J30 R6 SUITABLE FOR UNLEADED 5/16".
I'm not so worried about the Ethanol issue for the moment but as it makes no use of the "INJECTION" keyword, is it going to be an issue? It is pretty tough stuff and has reinforcment fabric running through it. I did have a short length of the other non-reinforced stuff and binned it on general principle that it was going to collapse under its own weight let alone take any pressure.
I had a problem tightening up the jubilee clips on the braided pipe sufficiently to make a good seal. So I removed the stainless outer coating from the first 20mm. I tightened it up and made a perfect seal. As soon as I switched the pump on the unprotected part of the tube just blew up like a balloon until it burst!..............Lesson learned!!
Interesting thought occured,................ as you are all thinking about possibly changing your brake pipes because of the ethanol problem ( deteriorisation of pipes ) how does that affect our daily runabouts ? Those of us who have petrol cars that is ?
Hi Dennis,
I've moved your question here....
It is my understanding that generally speaking cars made in the last 10-15 years should not be affected because the major OEM's have been aware.
In fact, I was not proposing anyone changes their hoses unless they have obvious failures and leakage (usually detected by a strong smell of petrol in your garage overnight).
The problem I was addressing is that the current IVA test for newly built kit cars doesn't actually specify what type of hose or pipes to use but you must be able to demonstrate that it is suitable. You usually demonstrate this by a) markings on the hose and b) a spec sheet from the manufacturer.
My next IVA test will likely be about 2 years from now so I need to be able to demonstrate that my hoses are suitable for the petrol in use at that time.
The rest of the discussion is described above.
My advice to you is not to worry or change anything unless you have a leak!
P.S. Its getting really confusing now as I've seen at least one respectable trade supplier advertising SAE J30R7 hose as being E10 compatible which it clearly isn't!! Ahem......
Looks like I'm going to have to rip out all my fuel lines and swap to SAE 30 R9.
Ever since I started the car for the first time and ran the petrol through the lines the garage has smelt petroly. Not like a fresh spill but just this back ground stink all the time. It leaks through into the house too which isn't pleasant. I thought first of all it was where I'd spilt some on the engine etc when I was changing over my injector seals but this is over three weeks now and the smell is just as strong. I can't find any leaks and have checked all hoses clips are tight. When you sniff around trying to find where it's coming from you can actually smell it through the hose. I wouldn't be surprised at this if it they'd been on for 10 years or something based on what I've read about modern fuel in R6 hose but this is only a year old (I assume).
I'm not so much worried about the extra expense, more the hassle of what was, with the engine and gearbox in, a painful job in the first place let alone with a face full of fuel on the cards
Looks like I'm going to have to rip out all my fuel lines and swap to SAE 30 R9.
Ever since I started the car for the first time and ran the petrol through the lines the garage has smelt petroly. Not like a fresh spill but just this back ground stink all the time. It leaks through into the house too which isn't pleasant. I thought first of all it was where I'd spilt some on the engine etc when I was changing over my injector seals but this is over three weeks now and the smell is just as strong. I can't find any leaks and have checked all hoses clips are tight. When you sniff around trying to find where it's coming from you can actually smell it through the hose. I wouldn't be surprised at this if it they'd been on for 10 years or something based on what I've read about modern fuel in R6 hose but this is only a year old (I assume).
I'm not so much worried about the extra expense, more the hassle of what was, with the engine and gearbox in, a painful job in the first place let alone with a face full of fuel on the cards
Hi Ian
Cn I offer you a glimmer of hope?
I had the same petrol smell after I had put a gallon in my tank. I could not see any leaks,and there were no obvious signs of a drip on the floor either, yet the slight smell of petrol persisted.
I found my problem when I changed my diff and had to take the fuel tank out.
I had used the stainless braided (expensive!) fuel hose with a plastic end cap, to go from my tank to the HP pump. The problem was that the plastic end cap isolated the inner tube too much and the jubilee clip just would not tighten the tube up sufficiently around the Marlin union.
Turns out I had two problems - the Marlin out let was only 10mm and I was using 12mm pipe, and secondly there are better fuel pipe clips than jubilees. I've now discarded the plastic end cap and used proper pipe clips, and my petrol smell has disappeared.
I'm using 10mm ID SAE 30 R6 hose from tank to pump to swirl pot and back and it was a very snug fit getting it onto the tank outlets so I don't think I've quite the same problem as you. I'm using the proper mini clips throughout too rather than jubilees as I'd heard they can not get the best seal.
What I plan to do on the weekend is get the car back up on stands as I need to go under and measure up for the propshaft anyway so I'll give all the hoses up the tunnel a good check in case I've nicked one of them accidently while drilling or something. I'll also be able to double check all the clips are nice and tight under the rear at the same time.
One other thing along the same lines as what you say is that the barbed 10mm outlets on my swirl pot are a bit smooth so the 10mm hose slides on and off a little too easily so that may be a source of a slight leak and that is also the main area that stinks the most. I had a go swapping the return for 8mm hose with a proper 10-8mm adapter on earlier to see if that would improve things but haven't got round to doing the inlet and rail return yet. Hopefully it will be something simple and I can leave the main lines alone
I don,t think its your hoses Ian, petrol is different to water in that it has no surface tension and will escape from areas that water never would and as such would probably permeate along the hoses as well giving you the feeling that is coming from them. I would suspect you have a leak from one or more of your connections somewhere.
If you want to know more about petrol and the potential problems relating to E10 fuel that is coming this year I posted an interesting article a few days ago in General chatter a few days ago. Be warned though its quite long.
Good luck with the investigation, let us know what you find.
Looks like I'm going to have to rip out all my fuel lines and swap to SAE 30 R9.
Ever since I started the car for the first time and ran the petrol through the lines the garage has smelt petroly. Not like a fresh spill but just this back ground stink all the time. It leaks through into the house too which isn't pleasant. I thought first of all it was where I'd spilt some on the engine etc when I was changing over my injector seals but this is over three weeks now and the smell is just as strong. I can't find any leaks and have checked all hoses clips are tight. When you sniff around trying to find where it's coming from you can actually smell it through the hose. I wouldn't be surprised at this if it they'd been on for 10 years or something based on what I've read about modern fuel in R6 hose but this is only a year old (I assume).
I'm not so much worried about the extra expense, more the hassle of what was, with the engine and gearbox in, a painful job in the first place let alone with a face full of fuel on the cards
Like others, I think you have a leak as there is no E10 petrol yet and your hoses wouldn't leak so quickly.
My car was in my 'integrated' garage at home for over 5 years with petrol and never a wif of petrol.
Patrick had pin holes in his aluminium fuel tank so that is another thing to check. Do you have a filler cap fitted?
I did a few things yesterday that hopefully will help.
- two out of 3 of the badly made 10mm outlets (more like 9mm) on my swirl pot now have 8mm hose stretched over them with an appropriately sized mini clip. Waiting on some more hose to do the 3rd one.
- Inspection plate on the tank and dip tube sender have been re-sealed with blue hylomar.
- Marlin supplied one way valve on the tank vent has been turned around so it only lets air in not out.
- The bottom inlet on my facet lifter pump had a very slow seep from the NTP-10mm adapter on the NTP side so that has had a little more torque applied. don't want to over do that though or I really will have proper leak
I've also noticed that my 'vented' filler cap seems to be venting continously which is not going to help. I thought the idea was it would let out excess gas if the tank got too warm and expanded. There is little chance of that happening in my garage. I'm going to tape a couple of food bags over it today and see if that is the source as the garage still smelled this morning even after all those other fixes
Finally got chance to have another look at this tonight. I found a small but persistant seep from the bottom right angle union on my facet lifter pump so I've pulled it out and refitted it with extra ptfe. Hopefully this will sort the problem but it will now take a few days for the stink of spilt petrol from disconnecting the pump to clear so I'll have to wait it out to see if it's worked.
I always have a very weak smell of petrol in my garage. I think it is just the tank venting as there has never been the slightest sign of any leak.
Be careful with blocking any vent for the tank completely - it is possible for them to literally "blow up" like a balloon. You only have to leave the car in the sun (what's that) for a few hours on a sunny day to warm up sufficiently to cause a problem. Remember also that the high pressure fuel pump uses the petrol as a coolant. The fuel returned to the tank is significantly warmer adding to the problem.
I used the one way valve to allow air into the tank. But I also made a small nick in the rubber washer inside the valve which allows the build up of any pressure to be slowly released. I did this after filling up one day when there was a huge rush of escaping air when I took the filler cap off.
I had a friend many years ago who had a mini that smelt of petrol, There was supposed to be a vent pipe from the top of the tank but it had fallen off. So he blocked the hole with plasic filler.
During the next week or so there were mysterious boing sounds from the back of the car.
When he went into the petrol station to fill up he could get only 2 gallons in the tank as it had been crushed by creating a vacuum inside it.
- Marlin supplied one way valve on the tank vent has been turned around so it only lets air in not out.
-
Ian,
CBS now do a clever little two way pressure relief / spill protection valve. It's not cheap but should stop your tank blowing up / collapsing under changes in pressure. (Extreme wording used for effect only, but you get the picture!!)
Looks like the fuel pump leak is now fixed and the smell is definitely strongest around the filler cap. I'v sent CBS an email and they got back to confirm that the vented cap they sell is just open to atmosphere, no pressure basis at all. I've asked nicely if they'll swap for a non vented one and then I can buy the two way ball valve vent Nigel linked to. Let's see what they say. If they're not interested I'll just have to ebay it but will be a fair waste of money I'm sure that way
well, CBS kindly exchanged my vented cap for a non-vented one at no cost other than postage and the smell from around the filler has unsurprisingly now gone. Unfortunately the general smell in the garage has not
It's been well over a week since I swapped the filler and many more since I last spilled any fuel (a month) so unlikely to be residual stink from that. The smell is strongest from the back end of the car so I'm starting to wonder if it is the facet pump itself that is defective but no real evidence to support that.
Running out of ideas now as there's no sign of a leak anywhere
well, CBS kindly exchanged my vented cap for a non-vented one at no cost other than postage and the smell from around the filler has unsurprisingly now gone. Unfortunately the general smell in the garage has not
It's been well over a week since I swapped the filler and many more since I last spilled any fuel (a month) so unlikely to be residual stink from that. The smell is strongest from the back end of the car so I'm starting to wonder if it is the facet pump itself that is defective but no real evidence to support that.
Running out of ideas now as there's no sign of a leak anywhere
Hi Ian
I had exactly the same problem. Mine turned out to be a jubilee clip that was not quite capable of clamping the tube tightly enough to make a seal.
Sounds daft but have you tightened all the screw type connections on the pump/filters?
What connection do you have in to your tank? - this could be your problem as presumably the threads were cut in the soft aluminium by Marlin and may be too large? PTFE tape might help, (or whatever is required to work with petrol.)
What thread did you screw in to it?
The fittings on the tank are just plain 10mm non-barbed and I'm using the proper fuel hose mini clips rather than jubilees. They were very tight to slide on so I'd be surprised if it was leaking from there though I'm not discounting anything yet. I've even been round the system swapping out the clips for the next size down where appropriate to ensure a tight seal without having to tighten to the full length of the thread. Even stripped the thread on one by over tightening.
I'm pretty convinced it's coming from the back end of the car now as any scent I pick up around the engine is not at all strong so more likely just residual odor from my injector seal issues a while back plus general oily/engine smells.
One of the problems is once you get the scent of petrol in your nose it's then hard pick up a real leak from just background so I tend to have to decide on a place to shove my hooter then leave it an hour before trying again
