This is a read-only archive of the old Madabout Kitcars forum. New posts and replies are no longer possible, but every thread is still here to browse and read.
I bought 45 mm clamps which were actually a bit larger than 45 mm so I had to squeeze them down a bit to fit my 320 uprights. He's currently listing 48mm and 51mm clamps. Not sure which would be best for your uprights? They are made in Canada and come with nuts which I suspect are UNC rather than metric so i just used the nuts that came with the u bolts. They seem very strong but are not plated so need painting.
The bolts holding the Marlin bit to the plate are 10mm metric. You have to drill out the wing stays out to 10mm holes.
I also got the 6mm plates cut to size of an ebay supplier but they were really badly cut and not even square! I used 6mm steel so that it didn't bend too much when I tightened it all up.
You'll find the wing mounting points become nearer the centre of the car which means there is more clearance between the wing stays and the inner alloy wheel rim.
I bought 45 mm clamps which were actually a bit larger than 45 mm so I had to squeeze them down a bit to fit my 320 uprights. ...peter
I just bought some. They certainly look more up to the job than the woosy ones I bought from my local motor factor. Mind you - it seems like American mm are different to ours (isn't everything bigger over there) as the 51mm clamps measure up at about 55mm. Perhpas I should have bought the 48mm ones.
Anyway - I am going to try a similar setup to yours. I drove the car to work this morning and before I set off I gave it the now obligatory check of the front wings. On one of the clamps the saddle had spread alarmingly - luckily I now carry a spare....
I made a similar (but simpler) mod to Peter today - albeit without the heavy duty u-bolts. First drive (to the pub) and it seems to have made a big difference. Although the wings still bounce up and down it has reduced considerably and - always a bonus - there was no sign of them coming loose! Only time will tell if it stays that way.
As the mode disposes of the 'orrible pressed metal saddles that come with the u-bolts there is the added bonus of more clearance between the wing stays and the wheels. The only downside is that I will have to adjust the wings as they are no longer central over the wheels.
What surprised me was how much difference it made to the "bouncing" problem. It shows how much the single clamp solution allowed the wing stay to move relative to the strut. It's no wonder that they kept on coming loose.
Ok - here's my interpretation (read: shameless copy ) of the double clamp wingstay:
It's a three way hybrid - it's a cross between Peter's (wide spaced U-Bolts), Robin's (stay mounted to top U-Bolt) and Stuart's (cap heads for 'belt-n-braces' prevention of rotation)
It's not particuarly tightly bolted together at the moment as it needs painting, but it seems very sturdy all ready. Time will tell, I guess.
Not that I've got a Sportster but I was contacted by an owner who lives locally when he spotted my name on MOC Pitstop mag and he came around on Sunday. Since there has been a lot of activity on this thread I took a look at his front wing mountings and he has used 2 clamps on a plate very much like GOO's piccies above. It seems to work OK.
His car went through SVA last Feb, and there were quite a large number of items I spotted that would fail IVA, seat back height, tethered filler cap, some radius issues, contactable surfaces in the passenger footwell....
Ok - here's my interpretation (read: shameless copy ) of the double clamp wingstay:
It's a three way hybrid - it's a cross between Peter's (wide spaced U-Bolts), Robin's (stay mounted to top U-Bolt) and Stuart's (cap heads for 'belt-n-braces' prevention of rotation)
It's not particuarly tightly bolted together at the moment as it needs painting, but it seems very sturdy all ready. Time will tell, I guess.
I would suggest that you put a second set of nuts behind the plate on the top U bolt. Tighten these against the plate after you have tightened the front set. That way the plate on the wing stay is firmly clamped to the plate you have made and it doesn't rely on the long part of the U bolt that goes arround the strut. If you don't do this, when the U bolts stretch a bit (as they will - normally made of monkey metal) the wing stay plate will no longer be fixed firmly.
We've been discussing putting a third stay on the cycle wings in various threads, but I thought I'd share some observations in this thread, as it's the main one for the topic.
I've just been out and had a noodle around Vikki's front wings & suspension, and I'm coming to the conclusion that it's going to be very difficult to add a third stay. to have the most benefit, it'd have to come from the centre of the mountings we already have, and it's pretty busy down there already.
If you can get something in there, it's going to have to be bent like a pretzle - it needs to fix to the upright, come out far enough to clear the top wishbone at both extents of lock, and then back out to clear the side wall of the tyre and then attach to the wing.
I'm guessing that this would make the third stay yet another spring, allowing to wing to flex around the two main struts as it already does - which sort if defeats the object.
The only other idea that I've had to solve this is to mount something to the ball joint taper on the top of the top wishbone - something with a bearing to allow it to turn with the steering - but it would need a longer ball joint taper to allow a nylock to secure the suspension, then the bearing / bush for the stay and than another nut. It can't go directly under the first nyloc as there's not enough room due to the two bars standing proud of the mounting eye.
What do you chaps think? Is it too much trouble? Do we just live with it as it is at the moment, or do another redesign?
The top of the joint taper isn't going to work. It will move in an arc the same as the top wishbone, but the upright, wheel and wing will move parallel to the ground - so any stay will pull or push the wing depending on the deflection of the suspension. Which isn't a good idea.
Right, I've just had the front end off Vikki, looking for options. I thought I could attach something via the old ABS sensor mounting holes (They're tapped to M8)... But no. Looking at it it would just flex as much as the main stays.
I think it's going to have to be (if anything) something welded to the current stays over the flange portion, taking into account the clearances required for the top wishbone.
I'm glad I was poking around the front though - Whilst investigating I found that the lower ball joint on the upright had worked it's way loose, and the steering was acting around the threaded portion of the joint, not the ball!
If I'd left it, and it worked all the way loose at high speed....
I'm no engineer, but I've always thought that the 'third bar' should run parallel to the body of the car not perpendicular to it like the other 2 stays. If this was attached securely to the hub it would help prevent the rotation which I think causes the wobble (some sort of triangulation based theory I think).
Not had a chance to try it out yet though....
Tim
I'm glad I was poking around the front though - Whilst investigating I found that the lower ball joint on the upright had worked it's way loose, and the steering was acting around the threaded portion of the joint, not the ball!
If I'd left it, and it worked all the way loose at high speed....
Not those dreaded 'metro' ball joints again!!
If you recall my first pair failed the MOT just the week before my SVA test. I had thread locked them in and had a devil's job getting them out.
I broke a 1/2" extension bar, if I recall before heating them up to get them out. The second pair fitted were left in the wishbones when I sent them back to Marlin for my replacements as they wouldn't come out.
I don't recall if I thread locked the third set, probably not
I guess the steering movement back and forth has undone your one?
I put it back in and used my ball joint socket and a breaker bar to do it 'fudging tight' again.
I think I may have inadvertently caused it to come loose as I smeared the thread with a little copper grease, in an effort to stop corrosion. In retrospect, not a very clever idea, as I guess it eased it's rotation back out of the socket.
What's also worrying is that it passed it's MOT with it like it, as I can't believe it's happened in the handful of drives I've had since she got her ticket renewed.
I'll give the other side the once over tomorrow, but it looks fine at first glance, with the joint tight against the socket, and I can't see it moving with steering input (unlike the loose one)
I think I may have inadvertently caused it to come loose as I smeared the thread with a little copper grease, in an effort to stop corrosion. In retrospect, not a very clever idea, as I guess it eased it's rotation back out of the socket.
I think British Leyland design them to rust in and that stops them rotating on a metro
My MOT man always seems to take a very keen interest in my ball joints? I think he is just of a very suspicious nature or maybe he recognised them as BL bin ends? But he did completely miss that my fuel tank was leaking!
My third MOT is next month so we'll see what he finds this time....
I'm no engineer, but I've always thought that the 'third bar' should run parallel to the body of the car not perpendicular to it like the other 2 stays. If this was attached securely to the hub it would help prevent the rotation which I think causes the wobble (some sort of triangulation based theory I think).
That's what I was trying to find a mounting point for today - but the problem is anything on the hub ends up inside the line of the wheel, so it needs to bend back toward the car (like the main stays) to clear it and the tyre. If you take it off the current stay anchor point, you'd need to bend it so it goes into the wheel and then out again to clear the top wish bone:
If you bolted a small length of angle extrusion (~20x20mm) across the top u-bolt (on the wheel side) could the third stay then come of the top of the centre of the angle extrusion. At an angle but keeping it straight?
Possibly... I'll have a look today at some point, as I have some metal angle left over.
I think it might have to come off the lower U clamp, as I'm not sure if the upper threaded portions would have enough length to pass through the back plate, the stay and the angle & still get a nyloc on.
I tried peter's suggestion of some angle iron off one of the u-clamps. I went for the lower one, as there was still plenty of thread on the clamps to go through the extra metal.
Good idea, but doesn't really work. The rod or metal that you use as the third stay needs so many bends to clear stuff it's not funny - I got two attempts wrong by getting the bends either in the wrong place or to the wrong angles, so I gave up on that idea.
I have also tried taking a stay off the back of the upright, as the angle of travel from lock to lock is less than that if you had it on the hub side. This seemed to have some promise, as the bends weren't so complicated.
I got it up under the wing, but as soon as it was there, it was obvious that it was going to be a useful as a ashtray on a motorbike. It flexed just as much as stand still as it did without, so I can't see it being any good at speed, either.
So, unless someone can come up with a better idea, I'm just going to stick with the two stays and live with the wobbles - there doesn't seem to be any evidence of impending failure, and it's as rock solid on the upright as it was when I put it there.
Hi Jason
Sorry you didn't have any success. My intention, at some point when the expert in Caerphilly has actually fixed my car, is to try something like this:
) of the double clamp wingstay:
