MadaboutKitcars

Has anyone have any experience of using the Cortina M/C? While it has exactly the correct bore, I wonder if the holes through which the fluid enters are of the correct size to accept the little fitting from Marlin for the remote reservoir? (As I am currently using with the BMW M/C.)

If not it may be a safer bet to go for the Sierra one which has already been used several times?

Cheers

Robin

Pick up the phone and ask the seller!

The ebay sellers details are all available through his ebay site
Malcom Harrison
Tel 01603 880217

I would be reasonably sure they will fit, as the Metro rubber seals fit the Ford m/c


As well as Cortinas Mk4/5 he has Escort RS2000 with 20.6mm bore. There are Capri m/c as well, so there will be enough for all.

He will measure the hole diameters and centres.
He is not able to source Sierra m/cs. One of the 7 lookalike companies bought all the remaining stock!

PS - If anyone wants to go remote, I have a pair of elbows at a very reasonable price! But try Marlin first........!!!!!!!

Bingo!

I think I have solved the puzzle of the 'Ford' Master cylinder part number.

After double checking and then realising my BMW master cylinder is actually a dual diameter bore size, I decided to go for a 22mm cylinder.

Based on a hunch that the Marlin supplied M/C it was off a Ford Sierra and Mike's info that it is a Bendix OE, I ordered a BMC4052 from Brakes International.
It arrived today and has the magic numbers 383059 on the side.
It's just like Jason's but with the outlets on the engine side.
It is manufactured by an Italian firm called Cifam. ([url]www.cifam.it[/url])
The logo on the M/c is Ci. It is Cifam part number 202-099.
The Cifam website and catalogue has lots of useful info with pictures, 'where else used' and other suppliers equivalent part numbers.
It is brand new in a sealed box and was delivered to my door about 42 hours after I placed the order!
Manufacturers packing date is 08/07/11 so nice fresh stock.
Total price was £57.96 inc. VAT and courier delivery.

Thanks to Robin for finding [url]www.brakesint.co.uk[/url]

I'll be checking all the relevant measurements and post some pictures over the weekend.

...peter

PLEASE READ POST #525 below before ordering this M/C. THIS PART NUMBER MAY ONLY BE SUITABLE FOR CARS WITH DRUMS AT THE BACK

Aha! So that logo on the side of mine is Ci! Well spotted, Peter

Mine is exactly the same model, sourced 18 months ago from the ebay seller Mike linked to up-thread.

Mark.

Peter

Can I ask a couple of questions so that others can consider their options?

Have you fitted standard BMW brake parts in the rest of your system?
Do you know the bore size of your original m/c? - you say it is dual diameter bore size? Are you suggesting the two bores are different sizes?

The reason I ask is you are negating a significant part of the impact of increasing the servo pressure, by opting for the larger bore master cylinder.

Robin has stated his BMW bore size is 20.6mm in his standard set up. I know it does not sound much different, but the pressure in the brake system transmitted by the bore is related to the surface area: the bottom line is the 22.2mm m/c will be 16% harder to press than the 20.6mm. This is significant, given the reason for going to all this trouble is to make the brake pedal easier on the leg muscles.

I chose the 22mm bore m/c as it matches the original Ford Sierra spec to go with my Ford Sierra brake set up. The dual servo gets closer to the original Ford 8" servo, so I should have a system as close to Ford's original spec as possible. By opting for the 22mm bore you are making yours 16% harder to press than in the donor BMW (using Robin's bore figure)


There are, of course, other considerations. The pedal travel on the 22mm bore will be 16% less than the 20.6mm bore and it may be felt that this is worth having - I am in no position to comment as I do not know what it feels like in a BMW based car.

I do not wish to suggest you have got it wrong, but others following this thread need to understand that all our cars are not the same, and that a m/c that works in a Ford set up will not necessarily perform the same in the BMW set up. All other things being the same in the brake set up, my preference would be to opt for a m/c with the same size bore as the donor?

Of course you can suggest Jason has fitted the 22mm bore in his BMW set up and is happy. Given the opportunity to do it again with a 20.6mm bore and 16% less effort, but longer pedal, what would he do next time?

Please take this as a constructive question, for the benefit of others who are still able to choose their set up.
Regards
Mike

Question for Jason really but anyone who thinks they have the answer feel free to chip in.
Looking at your completed pic of the new installation it would appear that the m/c could be bolted direct onto the new supplied mild steel plate that goes between the servo and the m/c rather than drilling new fixing holes for the studs on which it is mounted. Or is that too simple ?

Reservoirs

Several of you have asked about reservoirs fitting the Sierra BMC. The photo below shows the standard Sierra reservoir on the left: on the right are reservoirs from Mk1 Fiestas. These fit the Sierra BMC.

In my Cabrio headroom above the reservoirs is my critical issue. The Sierra reservoir has a maximum depth of 85mm above the BMC - the Fiestas are 90mm.



Will either of these fit in a Sportster?
Would any one like to try the Fiesta option? They both need a home?

Mike

Mike,

I will give one a go. I dont think headroom is going to be an issue. PM me the damage etc!

Thanks

John

Hi John

Good man! I'll put one in the post tomorrow.

Can you let everyone know how it fits, please.

Do you have a Ford BMC to test it with?

Mike

Mike,
Therein lies a tale as they say. I have one coming which is either a Sierra one or a Cortina one. I think it will be the former Its a long story.....

Hi Mike,

OK, no problem. Let me answer your questions and take you through my decision logic. (But only time will tell if I got it right )

My brakes currently are all standard BMW, but I am a little different to most BMW builders as my donor car was only a 2 litre so was fitted with drum brakes at the rear.
According to realoem there are lots of options fitted to these cars with some fitted with dual bore MC's 22,20/17,46MM.....others were fitted with 20.6mm,
but that's now irrelevant as I fitted a new MC that I bought as NOS from eBay.
Unusually for BMW parts, I can't read any part numbers on it but I can now see that the back section of my current one has a larger external diameter than the front. The front piston drives the real wheel cylinders which are quite small in volume so presumably Dr. BMW decided they needed less fluid than the front disk callipers.(for the same piston travel)
My longer term strategy is to upgrade the back axle brakes to disks (but don't tell my wife :smile, so I opted for the 22mm bore Sierra MC.
I was close to ordering a Cortina MC with the 20.6 bore but I was concerned that when all four wheels have disk callipers they might need too much pedal travel.

Can you see my logic?
...peter

OK, I've just done a trail fit using only gravity as my mounting bolts!

No surprises, it all seems to fit just fine.....


Sierra Master Cylinder by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Sierra Master Cylinder by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Sierra Master Cylinder by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The adaptor plate fits perfectly and I'm glad I didn't need to make one. Thanks Mike!

Fitting will follow ....
the completion of the M20B28 engine conversion....
repair my steering rack boots....(damaged by the hose clip end stops recommended by Marlin)...
replace front wishbone ball joints as the rubbers are already perished....
refit all the bodywork.....
engine testing....
...peter

Peter

The only issue I have with the fitting is that my reservoir cap is close to the underside of the bonnet at the top. As you will have to file the firewall holes out - the new servo has 85mm centres compared to the existing 90mm for the metro servo - it would be best to file the top holes down the full 5mm. This will lower the servo and make the clearance less of an issue.

If you have a remote reservoir this is irrelevant, but the point is being made for anyone planning to fit a direct mounted reservoir.


Glad you like the kit!
Mike

Chromed servo + Sierra master cylinder

Here's what the chromed unit looks like with a Sierra master cylinder fitted:


Dual Diaphragm Servo with Master Cylinder by Mash_Tun, on Flickr

The adapter plate needs a little cleaning up and then painting so this was just a trial fit to see that everything lined up and went together correctly - and it all does just perfectly, I'm very pleased:


Dual Diaphragm Servo with Master Cylinder by Mash_Tun, on Flickr

First Impressions

Bambi was tentatively lowered on to all four wheels today, and taken for a test drive. My first impression of the brakes is much better than I expected! The pedal actually feels quite soft - certainly softer than I expected: though the pedal travel is more on the road than sat in the garage. I hope as the pads and discs bed in the pedal travel will reduce.



Based on my first two miles, and all at relatively slow speeds, the brakes are good. I had one one genuine emergency stand on the brakes moment - as my next door neighbour came round an unsighted bend too fast on a single track road - there is so little traffic round here we are all guilty of doing the same. He had his wheels locked up, and I needed to slow right down to pull on to the verge, and felt quite calm about it all.

I would suggest the 22mm bore master cylinder is right for the Sierra set up. I had considered the possibility of swapping my 22mm for a 20.6mm Cortina, to reduce the leg pressure, but this is definitely not necessary, and I would not want the additional pedal travel.

It will be interesting to see what other Sportster owners feel as you start to complete your kits. GOO's initial impressions were that he was happy with his set up with a 22mm bore. Certainly based on my own experience, which is with all Ford mechanicals, I'd recommend the 22mm bore.

Well done, Mike!


I bet your neighbour had a surprise when he saw you coming round the bend on that private road

Looking good Mike



Mine is fitted with a dual bore 22,20/17,46MM and the rear brake (disk) have an extra pressure reduction fitted inline. I just wonder if it will upset the brake balance.

Looks like the 22 might be the better option especially if I swap out the front callipers for something more meaty in future.

Yup, mine has the same BMW in-line pressure reducer.
We should be OK as we will have the same config as Jason's car which passed the IVA brake tests with the 22mm master cylinder fitted.

That sounds fine, need to decide if I stick with the remote fluid reservoir or change to one mounted on the master cylinder.

Ian Morris says his BMW reservoir has the two ports at 85mm centres - the same as the 22mm Ford master cylinder I have.
Is it too much to hope that it might fit without messing around?
Mike

That must have been quite an occasion - well done!

Servo Adaptor

Hey GOO,
Have have you got your car put back together get?

Almost. I'm hoping to get the brakes bled today so I can take her for a spin.

Not literally I hope....

You mean when he forgets his got a Capitan America brake booster and all wheels lock up!!