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Hi Mike, I'm only going to mod the BMW M/C if no other M/C can be identified. I fully take on board what's already been said about the potential to have a failure inside the M/C if the plunger is chopped so really just exploring alternatives. My car's a long way from being on the road so it's silly to start bashing things up when a bit of patience will get a better result.
Hopefully you'll get a positive ID on it on Monday.
Well done Jason and looks good...................but ??????,
is it an optical illusion or does the end of the M/C foul the side panel or indeed the bonnet ?
No, no fouling of the side panel or bonnet - everything shuts as it should.
I've completed the install today. I used the output rod that I turned in engineering class - it's a bit of mild steel to these dimensions:
It replaces the one that came with the servo - I reused the knurled locking ring though.
I wound it out and kept trying the master cylinder with the adaptor plate bolted on in place until I could make plate and the face of the servo touch with no resistance on the cylinder.
Then it was just a case of running new fluid feed lines (the old ones where two short), putting the heat shielding back on and voila:
I haven't had a chance to road test yet, as the dashboard and centre console are out whilst I wire up my starter button.
I think we are half way to finding out which brake master cylinder to go for. John at Kit-fit Newark (very knowledgable about Fords) has identified it is Bendix, and not Lucas Girling, by the fact that the hole centres are on a 70mm pcd, and the studs are 8mm not 10mm.
So you need to be looking for a bendix m/c.
Have a look at this site - for reference only, as the prices seem horrific! The master cylinder I have looks like this one:
Note two pipes exit to the left (to wards the engine), and the third exits vertically downwards: this is for a Right Hand Drive vehicle. Whilst this is not essential, exiting to the engine will avoid the issues GOO had with them exiting to the side panel,(his is originally for a Left hand Drive vehicle). He has a remote reservoir, and was able to rotate the m/c so that his pipes missed the side panel. For those of you wishing to fit a reservoir directly to the m/c, it has to sit horizontally, therefore the pipes must exit towards the engine. (There is one which exits vertically down).
John is going to make a few phone calls tomorrow to see if he can source this specification m/c, and see what price he can come up with. I'll let you know what he comes back with.
I do not know the answer, but an educated guess would be they are all the same. The Ford m/c has 22 stamped on the side which refers to the bore size - which suggests there is only one size.
Also the Sierra front wheels have their own brake pipe each, and so the bore must be the same for each.
I do not know abou which way around to fit them, but again would suggest they are all the same.
If the bore sizes were different the pressure generated would be quite different too, which would not be desirable. This is usually controlled by a brake bias valve instead.
peterux wrote:
Does anybody know if it matters whether the front brake pipes come off the cylinder outlets nearest the servo or not.
The BMW M/C has the front brakes nearest the servo and the rear brake line off the furthest. The 'Ford' types seem to be the other way round?
I can't think of a good reason why it matters but wonder if anyone knows better?
lots of info and it states the standard and koala type back plates are interchangable so you should be able to go with your own diff and use the other style backplate to alter the diff mount (assuming their info is correct)
Thanks for the Diff site lead - the problem is, the changeable back plate is for the 7.5" diff and of course I have the 7". Doh!
I am certain I will have to change the diff support on mine though due to the wind up. I may choose to make myself a bracket which attaches to my 7" diff but mimics the koala double stiffer mounting.
(The clevis is in the post for tomorrow collection)
Cheers
Mike
cabrioman wrote:
Yep that looks exactly like the one I have Mike, I always thought it was Girling so it shows what I know !
Thanks for dropping off the kit yesterday, much appreciated.
On the discussion we had around your diff, you may want to take a look here
lots of info and it states the standard and koala type back plates are interchangable so you should be able to go with your own diff and use the other style backplate to alter the diff mount (assuming their info is correct)
Mike, you wrote "The Ford m/c has 22 stamped on the side".
Not having installed the m/c on my Sportster, I am not sure which one is fitted to mine. It looks identical to Jasons pic but I can only find a small mark on the side nearest the engine and it may well be the number 22 ( will have to get a mirror as it is mostly hidden )
Question for you Mike is " Is the number 22 on the Ford m/c on the side nearest the engine as Jasons pic above please.
Dennis
The pattern part new m/c I am fitting is as per the photo in thread no.355
regards
Mike
denniswpearce wrote:
Mike, you wrote "The Ford m/c has 22 stamped on the side".
Not having installed the m/c on my Sportster, I am not sure which one is fitted to mine. It looks identical to Jasons pic but I can only find a small mark on the side nearest the engine and it may well be the number 22 ( will have to get a mirror as it is mostly hidden )
Question for you Mike is " Is the number 22 on the Ford m/c on the side nearest the engine as Jasons pic above please.
Dennis
Its a Girling cylinder that seems to be the most common one fitted to the Sierra range. It also seems to also be the one that is favoured by the Locust builders and various other "Seven" lookalikes.
It has three outlets - two at the furthest away from the servo for the fronts and the one closest to the servo for the rears. At 22mm diameter it is fairly close to the BMW 20.6mm diameter. Outlets are 10mm x 1mm which I think is the same as the BMW. Two face towards the engine and one downwards.
Biggest pain for me is that I have only one line going to the front at the moment and so will have to do rather more re-plumbing than I anticipated.
Does anybody know if it matters whether the front brake pipes come off the cylinder outlets nearest the servo or not.
The BMW M/C has the front brakes nearest the servo and the rear brake line off the furthest. The 'Ford' types seem to be the other way round?
I can't think of a good reason why it matters but wonder if anyone knows better?
Some of the BMW M/C are stepped having a different diameter for the pistons that operate the front and rears. I would imagine it only matters if you are using one of these.
Mike, My m/c 383059, seems to look identical to the posted expensive one, and from your site, seems to have the same number on yours, two ports towards the engines ,and one downward at the front...but I can't trace where I bought it, but I know I wouldn't have paid big money for it...have I just been lucky that this is the one that I have?
Secondly, is it possible to retro fit flexible short aeroquip hoses to the m/c from my copper lines at the bulkhead? This would make life a lot simpler(my favourite word at the minute)!
Its a Girling cylinder that seems to be the most common one fitted to the Sierra range. It also seems to also be the one that is favoured by the Locust builders and various other "Seven" lookalikes.
It has three outlets - two at the furthest away from the servo for the fronts and the one closest to the servo for the rears. At 22mm diameter it is fairly close to the BMW 20.6mm diameter. Outlets are 10mm x 1mm which I think is the same as the BMW. Two face towards the engine and one downwards.
Biggest pain for me is that I have only one line going to the front at the moment and so will have to do rather more re-plumbing than I anticipated.
Robin
Robin,
great website! I had not found that one.....
BMC 4052 looks like Jason's M/C complete with the 'cut out'. It's also Ford/Bendix confirmed by Mike's contact and pictures.
I think the equivalent First Line part is FBM4068 which i'll check out at my local motor factors. These are also available on eBay but i would caution anyone ordering one at their own risk because I may not be right.
These are 22.2mm diameter pistons.
The older MK 4 Cortina MC's have a 20.6mm diameter, which is another option. (Less effort, but more travel for the same displaced fluid :noidea
...peter
P.S. you can access the Firstline 'webcat' by using account number 16256 and password 'password'
PLEASE READ POST #525 below before ordering this M/C. THIS PART NUMBER MAY ONLY BE SUITABLE FOR CARS WITH DRUMS AT THE BACK
John believes he can supply these at £53.00 +VAT = £63.60 +p&p. (I think this will be without the reservoir - but a standard original Sierra reservoir cleans up very well if required).
Has anyone found a lower cost source?
I thought I only paid around £40 for mine, but as I gave up saving invoices (due to the frigtening total cost of my car) I can not be sure.
I have found my original invoice for my master cylinder, and I bought it off ebay!
Mine was for a Sierra, and does have a 22.2mm bore. However, these are becoming very difficult to source. The ebay seller has Cotina Mk4/5 which could just as easily be used with our adaptor plate.
I have checked with the seller, the projection towards the servo for the Cortina one is only 15mm, and has a diameter of 39mm, so is ideal. Even better for the BMW set up, is the fact that it has a 20.6mm bore, (which I believe one of you said was closer yto the original BMW?)
And best of all they are less than £40 - while stocks last!!!!!!!!!!
Hopefully this has solved the last of your major problems - the rest are normal kit car problems!
Regards
Mike
Mike wrote:
Hi to BMW m/c users
John believes he can supply these at £53.00 +VAT = £63.60 +p&p. (I think this will be without the reservoir - but a standard original Sierra reservoir cleans up very well if required).
Has anyone found a lower cost source?
I thought I only paid around £40 for mine, but as I gave up saving invoices (due to the frigtening total cost of my car) I can not be sure.
Robin,
great website! I had not found that one.....
BMC 4052 looks like Jason's M/C complete with the 'cut out'. It's also Ford/Bendix confirmed by Mike's contact and pictures.
I think the equivalent First Line part is FBM4068 which i'll check out at my local motor factors. These are also available on eBay but i would caution anyone ordering one at their own risk because I may not be right.
My local motor factor used to do First Line parts but now it appears they use Lucas/TRW parts supplier. Their best price is about £56 +vat and off course no P&P and their picture looked a bit different so I declined to buy one of theirs.
Is anyone planning to go down the remote reservoir route?
As I have now opted for the direct fit Sierra reservoir, I have a pair of the plug in adaptors from the m/c to the push on pipe that go to the remote reservoir - bought at great expense from Marlin, but available at a fraction of the cost!
I have trial fitted my servo kit today- I will take it apart to paint the adaptor plate.
I have welded the studs in, front and back of plate, then polished any raised weld flat.
I have drilled a very shallow counter sink in the m/c holes to clear the weld around the very base of the studs. Similarly I have shallow counter sunk the adaptor holes that face the servo studs to clear the raised rivet fixing of the stud base. Strangely this only affected the powder coated servos - all the zinc and Chrome servos were nice and flush.
It all fits very snugly in a Cabrio. There is plenty of clearance to the side.
The reservoir cap comes closest to the underside of the bonnnet, with around 5mm of clearance. But since the master cylinder is fixed, 5mm should be sufficient.
Thanks to Jason/Goo for the diagram and dimensions for his servo outlet rod,-Mike, did you alter or extend your servo push rod for your m/c in the pictures?
GOO made me the extension as shown in his drawing. I measured the depth of the m/c and set the pushrod to 1mm less.
Mike
jeremy wrote:
Thanks to Jason/Goo for the diagram and dimensions for his servo outlet rod,-Mike, did you alter or extend your servo push rod for your m/c in the pictures?
