MadaboutKitcars

Good idea, will have a look, I don't think the boss has any but a call via Aldi will probably secure some.

OK, got to the test station, the tracky pants seem to provide close to the right mixture.

Bit of a slow test but the outcome was what I had hoped for, it passed. They let me loose with the exhaust gas analyser so I adjusted the carbs so they were both about 0.2% CO, which they thought was about right.

I went into the office to collect the paperwork and there was a shout from the workshop, it let go a rad full of water (and anti-freeze) all over the garage floor. :-(


I bought a bottle of rad seal and put it in, I drove about 4 miles to a garage to get some fuel and it was just pouring out, so I cut and ran to a friends house, he is in the IoM watching the racing but I pulled the rad and managed to get back here. I need to solder the rad again then recover the Marlin.

It's been a long day.

8 Valve Ed - Congratulations on the MOT pass Robert and the last few car photos look great.

Sorry to hear about the radiator problem, hopefully it wont trouble you again.

Good luck, Paul.

Super job on the MOT, lucky it didn't pop on your 45 mile run the other day, my friend was in the IoM racing his side car outfit, apparently radiators where popping there due to the heat. Ed

Thanks Paul, as ever these jobs are a challenge but that's what I enjoy.

Once it's sorted it's going to be a joy to have. It's the first time I have driven an open top car since I can't remember when. Must have been the late 60's in my fathers Alvis TC21 Tickford drophead.

I am really looking forward to driving it in the Lakes, over the classic passes, Hardknot, Wrynose, Blea Tarn, Honister, Winlatter, etc. Take a picnic and have a nice day.

I seem to have joined a community of soft top drivers! My most enthusiastic admirers seem to be the drivers of modern, expensive cars like Merc's and BM's, who throw admiring looks my way! Despite the incomplete and somewhat rugged appearance of the car.

Keep plugging away at your car Paul, you will get there, I am missing your regular updates but I understand your position.

Once I have completed the shake down jobs and snagging I plan to start an 'On the Road' thread as Mr. Towed has done. While it's good to share the car build side of kitcar ownership, the fun doesn't stop when it's finished, in fact on the road is the main event. If I can share that and provide an insight into the usage side it may provide additional incentive for others to push on with their builds.

Still not sure what has gone on the rad, just got home in the 'boss's' car, about to investigate. It must be a biggish hole because Radweld did no good.

Will update later.

I believe 'Super Unleaded' or 98 Octane petrol doesn't have any Ethanol added.
But read the last few lines of this article...
http://www.groups.tr-register.co.uk/wessex/ethanol-update.html

It might be worth trying some E0 petrol before you change too much else.

....peter

P.S. congrats on the MOT - I'm glad that old metro servo is still working

Hi Peter, just got in from rescuing the Marlin. I soldered the rad again, not sure how good it is really, I think it needs rebuilding. In a way it's a good rad but it's pretty old and despite being a genuine Serk specialised radiator with perforated fins I am not convinced of it's integrity. The top and bottom tanks are flat with no stiffening beads to prevent the sides and top of the tank bulging when the internal pressure rises, the flat parts of the tank are quite rounded as a result of the bulging which has occurred when the heat and pressure has been on. I am concerned about fatigue cracks in the brass header tanks at the edges and around soldered joints

I am getting the feeling that a completely new rad may be the best way forward.

I don't believe the engine is overheating, it's coming up to thermostat temp and holding it steadily. I am however concerned one of the the tanks or the core could let go unexpectedly. If that happened a long way from home I am stuffed

The old Metro servo is good, once again many thanks on that one, the outcome of our discussion about front and rear balance of the BMW master cylinder held good. The front/rear balance seems good, in the dry at least. The axle weights front/rear are close to 50/50. The fronts lock up easily at low speed and do so well before the rears and in a controlled manner. On the rollers the fronts went well up towards 4-500 and were both the same, the rears were both about 200. The car weighs just over 700 Kg according to my improvised hydraulic jack weighing scales.

On my way back home I tried stopping the engine, still refuses to start but not for so long now. Pretty tired right now will try to explain better tomorrow...

Have you seen this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371351310778?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have to admit I hadn't! LOL

Seems an interesting project but grossly expensive for what it is. Me thinks it would be a nightmare to finish having started from the wrong end...

Surely a rolling, running, working chassis first, then create a body around it?

The creator has now probably realised that and want's rid, AND his money back.

Have been having a bit of a break from the Marlin while I re-group for the next phase of the restoration.

The radiator burst immediately after the test and caused me to have to leave the car at a friends and be 'rescued'. I did a temp fix on the rad next day, to get the car home.

This is the temp fix I made.



Today I pulled the rad out again and have made a much better repair. There appeared to be cracks in the lower tube plate next to the tube I had to disconnect and blank off. Today I removed all the solder I had applied as a temp fix and had a good look at the metal underneath.

This is what it looked like after grit blasting:



It is now obvious that the 'cracks' are in fact surplus tube holes which have been closed up and soldered up to seal them. Trouble is the solder has cracked and has been seeping, then leaking.

I soldered a small brass patch over the worst one.



However it still leaked so I had to solder another patch over the other three slits.

I am going to mount the radiator on it's base, I have removed the side plates because I feel they are stressing the tanks. I have a quote for a new radiator and I think I will go that route later in the year. Until then I want to get it usable so I can address the fuel vaporisation issue. I may not do any long trips this year, depending on how it works out. I don't want to get stranded miles from home.

I am also planning a remote header tank to be fitted on the bulkhead, which will take the place of a heater if I had one (which I don't!). The two pipes at the back of the inlet manifold will be a perfect place for the header tank to connect. I still have to decide if it will be brass, aluminium or stainless...

If I could get some large brass or copper tube, it would be quite easy to make one. I still don't have argon so stainless would be difficult, aluminium is another possibility but it really needs TIG welding which I can't do myself on aluminium, even if I had argon.

The radiator is back in the car, I have made some aluminium pipe connectors to replace the temporary joiners I had used which were close to popping off. They have served their purpose and were only ever intended to be to get it to the MOT.

The main issues I detected on my 100 mile round trip to the MOT are as follows:

1 - The steering wheel is too low and needs turning one spline to the left to be straight. This causes me discomfort because in 5th gear I can't lift my knee high enough to relax, resulting in severe cramps.

2 - The engine 'gasps' badly under heavy acceleration.

3 - The engine refuses to start when hot. Takes about 30 mins to cool sufficiently to re-start.

4 - Tick over is too fast but the adjustment screws are fully backed off.


1 - I haven't dealt with 1 yet. Need to resolve the engine issues first. The solution is to remove the spacers I fitted to lower the steering wheel. However I may need to adjust the lower dash to allow the column to rise.

2 - I have found the original SD1 air filter housing and fittings. I have fitted them, the acceleration 'grasp' is now gone, it accelerates impressively and smoothly, it pulls very well as one would expect.

3 - I have fitted a lower temp thermostat, 82ºC, although I think the engine is actually running hotter now than it was on the MOT run. The 'new' thermostat may not be opening as wide at the previous one which was 88ºC, despite opening at a lower temp.

I plan to monitor the temperatures of the carb float bowls to experience and discover at what temperature it refuses to start. After todays run the rocker covers were 85ºC and the float bowls were 65ºC, I understand ethanol can boil/vaporise at 78ºC They are separated by about 12mm of air. I was also concerned to discover that the fuel pipe was 45ºC despite being at least a foot away from the exhaust. That supports suggestions for a full return circuit system and insulating the pipes in the engine bay. Some rethinking in this area may be called for. I am planning for heat shielding of the carbs and insulation of the fuel pipes, with the possible novel provision of a water jet screen wash directed at the float bowls to cool them with water if the need arrises.

I am also intending to create the louvers in the engine side panels, although I feel it may help, I believe the problem needs solving at root as much as possible first, getting the carbs isolated and controlling their temp is I feel the key to the solution.

I still believe the carbs are cooled by the Venturi effect while the engine is running but they will absorb heat very quickly once the engine has stopped. I plan to monitor temps while the car is being driven. I need to understand what is going on temp wise.

4 - The carbs need servicing, with new throttle spindles, bushes and seals. I believe the inability to set the tick over to be adjusted is a combination of wear and drawing air through the worn spindle bushes and missing seals.

I plan to start an 'on the road' thread once I have overcome these teething problems. The car is nice to drive and certainly turns heads. I am sure not having a windscreen at all is better than having a windscreen without door windows. It's windy but does not have the buffeting I have experienced with just a windscreen.

Having read in another thread that the Metro servo is inadequate, I can only say that last night I tried a high speed (50MPH?) heavy brake, I easily locked the front wheels on a dry, very grippy tar and chip road, the car pulled up with little drama, leaving two big black lines on the road.

I need to do something about ground clearance... I need a set of standard springs!

Did you keep on soldering the rad or get it re cored? You could always just badge it up as a mor9an or other British "classic" and drive it as is, it would probably be one of the most reliable on the road, don't forget this warm weather may be making you doubt the thermostat my diesel van runs 3 increments hotter this weather. Ed

Hi Ed, I just soldered it as in an earlier post, above. Nobody wants to re-core my rad because the headers have been created from flat sheet and they are just folded at the corners. As soon as you go near it with a soldering iron or a flame, the joints start leaking. I have had a quote for a complete new rad but it's a lot of money. Despite that I think I may well go down that route, on the whole I have been very miserly with the restoration, the radiator is key to reliability, especially with such a large engine so what I have saved during the build might justify the investment. I just want to have time to look at alternatives like perhaps a Series Land Rover rad to re-core, or something like that. Even a pair of tractor header tanks, which would be narrow enough. The max width is about 18" or 450mm, which by todays standards is very narrow.

The day I took it for the MOT must have been one of the hottest. It's early days yet, I need to live with it for a while and get used to it's ways.

I used a standard (early) BMW E30 325 rad in the Sportster. Its fairly narrow and keeps the 2500 6 cool with no problem. I can measure it if you like. It was pretty cheap as I remember although that was several years ago.

Cheers Robin

That would be good Robin, thank you. I could widen the radiator space a little, the only real limitation is the sides of the nose cone and the steering shaft. I could probably accommodate 19" wide and 19" high at the sides, a little more in the middle. I don't need a filler cap in the radiator. The existing radiator is very heavy, with four cores. I do wonder if it really needs four cores but...

It would be good if there were some means of calculating the radiators capacity to emit BTU's and a means of knowing what heat various engines need to dispose of.

I have always wondered why the output from the radiator is directed at the engine which the heat has just been removed from! I guess the re-introduction of some fairly diluted heat to the outside of the engine is probably pretty insignificant. By comparison the exhaust manifolds get VERY hot, 250-300ºC. I have seen some manifolds wrapped in insulation but I would have thought that could lead to problems from cracking and only transfer the heat further down the exhaust system where it's perhaps even less welcome.

Wrapping the exhaust is originally ment to keep the heat in the exhaust to make the gasflow faster on the way out,not to keep the heat away from other parts.
The air passing tru the radiator is cooler as the engine but has no influence to the heath of the engine,the coolant fluid does the cooling,not the surrounding air.
René

Its about 18.5 inches wide and 19.5 inches high at the n/s where the top hose connects. About 18.5 inches high on the o/s. There is a reasonable lines drawing on aaronradiator.co.uk part no 2bw133. It fits like it was made to measure in the sportster nose. Its only 2 cores but I never had any overheating even when being stuck in long traffic queues in the summer. I do have a good electric fan (12") as I recall. And some 325's have an oil cooler althoughI am not convinced that makes a lot of difference in normal driving.

Cheers Robin

Thanks for the clarification René, I wasn't clear on that, the references to wrapping the exhaust I have read have been aimed at preventing the exhaust heat from overheating the engine bay.

My exhaust manifolds reach temperatures iro 300ºC which certainly keep the surroundings warm!

I am just feeling my way at the moment, I made an 8 mile trip this evening and the engine re started quite happily. The route was quite flat so the engine wasn't pushed and didn't get particularly hot, big hills and it is a rather different outcome.

The improvement gained by restoring the original airbox and filters is remarkable. The car is a joy to drive now and hopefully can only get better. Flooring the accelerator simply shoves you back in the seat and hang on to the steering wheel! Previously it resulted in a gasp and the occasional back fire before a stuttering gradual gain in momentum.

Thank you Robin, I will take a look, the size seems workable. In a way I am skeptical about the advantage of four cores, by the time the air has made it's way through that labyrinth it has probably lost the plot and given up any attempts at extra cooling! It seems to me that a clear easy path for the air might actually result in better cooling, provided there is sufficient cool airflow.

Turning the fan on with my radiator seems to make little difference to the engine temp, although I don't believe it is over heating per se. with the Roadster and it's 1275 engine I had a single core Renault Clio rad and that responded almost instantly when I turned the fan on.

It's the mechanical integrity of the radiator structure which is my concern. I don't want to experience a burst radiator a long way from home with no backup, or means of an easy fix. I am considering joining a recovery organisation but I still don't want to tolerate a potential source of unreliability.

And I should have added that my side bonnet panels are well louvered meaning there is plenty of chance for the hot air to escape - an often overlooked point.

I think having 4 cores just means greater coolant capacity and hence more able to absorb sudden increases in heat dissipation requirements. I guess it makes only a small difference in normal running.

Cheers, Robin

I have to admit I don't have any louvers in the bonnet sides as yet, although as I say, I don't consider I have an overheating problem, it has never boiled nor shown any tendency to do so, despite having been taken up some VERY long and big hills. Grizebeck is one of the biggest and guaranteed to cause a problem if there a suggestion of lack of cooling.

http://www.barrowcentralwhs.org.uk/courses/other/hillclimbs/grizebeck.htm

I just found this link, I must check my times up there, will be interesting to see how the Marlin compares with a pushbike!!!

My soldering may have done the trick but I need to gain confidence with the car, this will happen over time as I iron out the little snags one by one. I definitely enjoy driving it, even better in a way than my old Rover P6's except for the lack of comfort of course, more akin to a 4 wheel motorbike, which was what I was expecting. The response to the accelerator and brakes is now good and that is key. I just hope the fuel costs stay within bounds.

I am not rushing to make the louvers just yet, I need to make a tool first, but it will come, I have ideas...

Is your fan turning the right way?
It must be sucking the air tru the radiator,i know you probably checked it but you won't be the first pushing hot air thru the radiator into the cool outer air..............
Also check the water channels in the engine block if there is non dryed up coolant left in the channels as the engine was out of commision for a while.

Hi René, the fan is drawing air from the front, sucking it through the radiator and discharging it into the engine bay. I am using a 12" (300mm) Kenlowe fan which is pretty powerful, there is no mistaking which way the air is moving. I chose to locate the fan behind the radiator to help protect it from the elements when the car is parked, as it will be for longish periods, living so near the sea, everything gets a gentle coating of salty sand in this area (We have to hose down the front door and windows weekly to prevent them looking shabby). It also provides a slightly less 'cluttered' view through the radiator grill.

The engine block and heads were very thoroughly cleaned with a powerful pressure washer before it was re-assembled, I am satisfied the grunge which did exist in the water jacket has all gone.

As I have tried to emphasise, I don't believe I have an engine cooling issue, but I greatly mistrust my existing radiator. Due to it's poor construction it could easily burst at any moment. The header tanks are made from 1.2mm flat brass sheet, folded into a box with no stiffening ribs, the corners are folded and soldered, they rely on the solder to fill gaps, also there are a number of cuts in the lower tube plate which have been soldered up, they have been leaking, add to that, before I got the car the water pump has tried to drill a hole through the centre of the radiator, I have repaired it pretty well but far from perfect. Murphy's law states if it can go wrong, it will and at the worst possible time. Murphy is often right.

From day one I have intended to re-core or replace the radiator, bearing in mind the engine is a Rover 3500 V8, replacement with new is very expensive, the small size of the aperture excludes most commercially available radiators with sufficient capacity, so I am finding myself looking for a bastard solution.

Thanks for your input René, it helps me focus on the issue at hand.

Robin, Thanks for the info.

I called at my local breakers yard this morning, I know they have some BMW cars in, I was directed to the BMW corner and it was suggested I was looking for a 3 series car. There was a 325 complete with radiator, not like the one you pointed me to at the Aaron site but the core size seemed about right.

I remembered from my previous search of their radiator store that the rad in the 325 looked very similar to one I had seen in the store, so I went to find it. They charge £10 per Radiator.



I have bought the rad from the store and have easily pulled the left hand header tank from the radiator, this header incorporates an expansion tank. My plan is to go back when it's fine and get the other rad off the 325, if they both match exactly, which I think they will, I will buy that one and use the best core with both right hand header tanks.

That will then mount vertically and should fit perfectly, according to my measurements. I will then HAVE to install an expansion tank, which I have already started to make from stainless.

Today I acquired a new cylinder of Argon gas, so I will soon be able to weld the stainless tank together myself, and other stuff!

If this works, and I see no reason why it shouldn't, it will provide a good means of making a simple and effective radiator, even if you use a new one, it's very easy to get the tanks off by prizing the crimped tags back. They just need gentle straightening and then crimping up again on a fresh header tank.

The measurements are:

Height, including the two small header tanks, 570mm - (22.5 inches)

Width, including the plastic side protection pieces, 470mm - (19 inches)

Core thickness, about 38mm - 40mm?

Tank thickness, about 60mm

The core area is about 440mm by 440mm.

The radiator I got today has a fin spacing of 1mm and 15mm spacing of the tubes which are staggered.

The radiator I have is dated November 1997 and is marked as having come from a 320.





This is the rad with the header tank removed.



By the way... it's exactly 2 years since I collected the Berlinetta from it's PO. A lot of water has gone under that bridge since then.

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