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Feedback Please .....new Body Available Soon / 50's Sports
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I am more well known on various Hot Rod and Volksrod forums as I run a small workshop involved in building Hot Rods , Volksrods and importing Classic American cars.... [url]www.bayarearods.co.uk[/url]
My reason for posting this thread is that I have undertaken building a 50's style Sports car , similar to a 550 Spyder but borrowing various style tips from many of the cars of that era...it is going to be offered as a single skin style body with seperate front section , no opening doors etc..a basic format ideal for budget and ease of build.
It is based around a Herald Chassis for registration purposes but could easily be put onto a Custom Chassis. Width is similar to a 550 Porsche , wheelbase is 4'' longer at 90'' , height from lower sill to doortop is 24'' , seat bases will be recessed into the floor slightly.
The headlights are VW / Porsche , screen is 550 Spyder , tail lights are Hillman Imp style round units ...all available quite cheaply.
The idea is to offer a car with the look and feel of the 50's Racing cars but without the complicated or expensive build issues......The Ferrari and Porsche examples are traditionally expensive.
Prices are to be finalized but this is intended to be a budget offering.
Heres some pictures of the plug body so far ....units are expected to be available mid-Summer , price to follow....
I would appreciate any comments , good or bad...Thank you
Peter...you'd be surprised actually , when I started this car , I was offered quite a few and I actually bought my base on Ebay , where again there is always a dozen or so available .....I paid £170 for mine , I don't think it would be unreasonable to pay up to about £4-500 for a donor as you use pretty much everything ...buying a Herald in that price range doesn't seem to be an issue .....Thank you for your interest.
Always admire people willing to give things like this a go.
The front on that last picture looks very much like it's from a Fairthorpe (but then other angles not so sure)
Not sure about the headlight treatment as they seem to dominate the front end but like the overall concept. Sylva are doing something similar with their new car, the Sceptre I think its called.
THANKS JOHN , The car actually started out as the remains of a 1958 NICKRI , only a handful ever built and designed for a Pop chassis , I have changed it a lot , mostly the front to accomadate the Beetle headlights , I wanted it to get the look and feel of the Porsche Spyders and Borgwards etc of the early 50's and both cars use Beetle headlights , small bonnet scoop , screen area to accept Porsche Spyder screen , rear deck has been lengthened and a headrest fairing added , wheel arches made smaller and the body has been given more depth by putting deeper sills on as well as moulding the doors shut and changing the cockpit shape quite dramatically as well......The car will also have skirted rear wheels
I am going to make a mould of it over the next few months and put a few together to sell.....if anyone else wants a body , thats cool , if not , I'll just knock a few out.....
I like the shape and I don't think I would be put off by the headlights. As it has the feel of a classic/special, rather than a kit-replica, then it may well be received by the public as the real deal. (I must add, nothing wrong with replicas!)
The car doesn't lend itself to extensive modernisation, so the Herald base is an ideal option, in my opinion This is so long as the cheap Heralds come with a solid chassis. I think it would need a non-Q plate to pull it off though. It looks like it will be a fun budget drive.
The questions I would naturally ask are..
Will this need the IVA treatment?
What safety features are there - side impact for example?
Will any age Herald be OK to use?
Thank you Iadda , you have 'got it' .....it is meant to have the feel of a special rather than a component or replica...
IVA isn't needed , the non-radically altered Herald base qualifies it for the re-register as a rebody , not IVA route ....a whole lot simpler.
Side impact bars would be very easy to install along either side. By tying the front and rear bulkhead hoops together along either side with 1'' box or tube , this also makes fitting trim panels a whole lot easier too...
Any year Herald will work and due to being a rebody , it won't be a Q , retaining its original reg. mark.
I am tackling this build with my Hot Rod / Special head on rather than a true Kit style car with all the IVA issues that brings with it...
The Pick up is home made using parts from a '71 Beetle and '57 Beetle to create the front , I made an earlier style bulkhead and opening screen frame to add to the illusion too ....cab back is a chopped , sectioned , narrowed Ford F1 Pickup , about 1949 vintage , a Morris Minor Pickup rear window and Beetle lower , F1 upper doors !!
From a "looking to build my next project soon" perspective, I would not buy this from ebay. If you are going to do it, do it properly, update your website to include details of it, clean up the workshop and ring round the various kit-car magazines (and ppc) and get them round to do an article - a nice write up will sell many more than an ebay listing (and will probably cost less too!)
Chris.....thank you for your comments.
My experience of magazines , is they wouldn't do an article but they would suggest I send pics and details to be included on their new products/latest news pages....I'm already on the case with that !
Magazines may take an interest when my car is finished but they don't feature everything......I have had several kits featured in the past in magazines , it doesn't tend to sell many ...the internet has always been a better tool for me.
The website isn't being updated , but I am starting a new website for this and the classic American cars I import as well..it will have a link to/from the old site.
It's important to remember as well , cheapness is a key factor here ...anything that generates expense , generates price increase !
Tidy the workshop? .........I build Hot Rods and kit cars ........that won't happen !!!
Im new to this forum - but spotted your post on the car you are developing - I saw you sold the running one you had (Sammio Spyder) recently on which I nearly bid - I really like the 50's 550 spyder feel to the car ... is it your intention to keep the project going by offering more ?
Hi,
I did sell the car I was developing , yes....I have all the moulds sorted now and my development for construction was done....I am now actively offering bodies , rolling shells , running rollers , turnkeys ...whatever really...
THANK YOU
Just looked at your site and #^*%ing hell, £750 for the tub, dash and bonnet?! I know you're trying to keep it in the spirit of the 50's but I didn't realise you meant the pricing as well That's impressive.
I love the look of that era and the ethos surrounding the specials. Only one thing puts me off and that's that I have nowhere to build and lack the skills. Ok, that's two things. Nowhere to build and I have sexy fingers (everything I touch is f................ you get the idea) plus I don't think the performance will keep my interest. Three things then, three things. No workshop, no skills and dated performance. Those are my faults though, not yours, and I wish you well with it.
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.
Edit: Hmmmmmm, what about a 2-litre Vitesse as a donor? Brand new they had a whopping 104bhp which is ummmm, less than a quarter of my current car. Bugger.
I have sold 4 of these bodies now ...not breath taking but I'm happy with that....They were never going to be big or fast sellers in my opinion. Most kit builders are looking for a slightly easier path , I suspect. The bare shell , 50's Special approach isn't for everyone.
I'm currently working on number 4 ....I have shortened the body approx 9'' to fit a Spitfire chassis. I have cut doors and a bootlid into the shell and constructed the framework and fab'd the woodwork for the customer also.....I'm nearly done , just need to fit the front section and finish the screen and stuff.... The customer picks up the reins after that ...starting with a drastic lowering job , hopefully !!
Heres some pics.....
The Scimitar in the background is my next donor..its a 99'' wheelbased earlier SE5 Model ...I am going to widen the body slightly , moulding one with a single head fairing this time , possibly cut one door into the body and fit a custom fabricated front end that will be stretched 7'' ....The car will take on larger proportions and give it more of a Ferrari 750 Monza meets Aston DB3S meets Lancia D24 meets C-type Jag sort of feel , IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!
I have two confirmed builds and some ''thinking about its'' at present , so hopefully a few of these will make it out there in the next 12 months or so.....It would be great if they were all slightly different , but the same if you know what I mean......I have had an enquiry about converting the front to upright 7'' headlights , I am going to explore this avenue when time permits , as thats an alternative.......cheaper too !!
The single reason I got to this forum is Googling my idea to build a true '50s sportscar, based on the chassis of my '72 Se5a Scimitar... This is exactly what I had in mind! Congratulations on a more than fine job! Is the green one in the picture already based on the Scim's chassis or is it still Herald based?
Do you have more details on the Scim based kit yet? I'm getting quite exited...
Hi,
Firstly THANK YOU
That is a Herald 91.5'' example...I am hoping to get the SCIM version under way end of Summer....I need to do it alongside my normal stuff , so progress wont be fast but the body work will be first and then I'll decide whether to mould her or not.......watch this space !!
Just a quick note to say that the Sammio page on my website [url]www.bayarearods.co.uk[/url] has been updated to show a bit more about putting one together....
I appreciate this style of build isn't for everyone nowadays , but you can genuinely put an example of this car on the road for less than £2000 with some careful shopping for the right bits and pieces...In our current economic climate and add to that the fact they are SVA/IVA exempt , that cannot be ignored !!!
This seems to be coming along nicely, congratulations. That finished (green) car is a nice advert for the kit. Might I offer my own thoughts? Please feel free to tell me if/why I'm wrong.
From the bonnet intake aft I like it a lot and wouldn't change a thing. The rear is beautiful and I think the hump behind the driver is absolutely spot on. That alone sells it to me.
The front though, have you considered anything slightly different? At the moment it reminds me of those 60's attempts at amphibious cars or an Alpine and doesn't quite match the rest of the car. I suppose the best way to describe it would be if I first saw the car from behind I'd think "Wow!", as I walked up the side "Mmmmm, nice" but upon reaching the front "Errrrr....." where I'd stop and try to work out what troubled me. Actually I just had another look at the pictures and I've got it. Everything else is rounded or curved, the wings, arches, headlamps, that rear end, the hump and the bonnet intake whereas the front grille is square. If I had one I'd seriously consider modifying it to something like this:
I see you've gone from a Herald to a Spitfire chassis so assume a GT6 would fit the bill too? A car I've had at the back of my mind for some time is the Type 48 http://www.corsaspyder.com/Brief_history.html which is also Spitfire/GT6 based. Hmmmm. If I sold my TVR I could have one of those, one of yours and a Porsche Spyder replica!
Have you roughed out any prices for other build stages? £750 for the shell I see but I think you mentioned here or one your site the possibility of a completed car.
Lastly and please don't take this the wrong way as I suspect your choice might have been personal, perhaps based upon the name of a friend or relative but the name? Sammio conjures up two images for me. The first is of the Pilgrim Sumo, a budget Cobra kit, and the second of a Korean hatchback of some description. I think something 'classic' would top it off nicely.
Paul ,
Thank you for your input.....I know what your saying about the front end...in some pics it looks a bit 'wrong' but in the flesh its not too bad at all.....I am intending on changing the front completely when I do the Scimitar based example later this year and the Maserati you showed is more along the lines of where I was going to go with that one....I really like the Lancia D24 front as well , 1953 ? ish , with the one shrouded headlight....looks really purposeful.
The Spitfire / GT6 idea was really a one off ...I haven't re-tooled the moulds or anything and wouldn't really want to do too many of those starting with my longer body....I would , if asked , but won't be pushing them....
I'm building a couple of turn-keys for customers right now...I am working to a budget of approx. £4900 for a drive away , painted , wire wheel example and about £4200-4500 for steel wheels, depending on sizes.
A rolling chassis with body mounted would be about £1250-1500 using a customers stripped out car and would include fuel tank and steering column mounts etc....I know this is cheap and probably won't be able to keep prices this low for long but wanted to get a few units out there...
Sammio ? I like it.....my son is Samuel ( SAMMY ) O wen Janes...born about the time I started the project....it was originally pencilled in as a FRUGAL SPYDER , but I changed it......I felt that there was a relevance and FANGIO is a fairly significant name connected to 50's Motorsport , I felt it had a similar vibe.....
Not sure what to call the Scimitar based example yet though !
See? I just knew I'd put my foot in it with the name
I'm no expert so had to Google the D24, I reckon that sort of snout would be perfect. I still think it needs naming as something classic though I understand your not wanting to change it. If you make enough alterations to justify listing it as a different model perhaps you could ask around the forums for suggestions?
I went over the Le Mans track to see if there's any inspiration there but somehow I think there'd be even more trouble with Virage, Porsche and Mulsanne! Spyder's already out there on a few cars, Fangio sounds good but I wonder if there'll be copyright problems? Brooklands? What about taking a leaf out of Jaguar's book and calling it a D-Type? Making it clear it's not meant to be a Jaguar of course. I'm sure you could prove that it was (at least) your fourth model so therefore legitimately a 'D'
A nice picture of a 'D' Type.
What, realistically, would you say would be the maximum BHP that should be put into a Herald, Spitfire or Scimitar chassis? I ask because much as I like the look of the car I would really have to have enough to make progress and surprise some modern cars. I know it'll be light but would 200bhp* be too much? Subject to suspension, brake and other component upgrades of course.
*Not from the original engines I'm thinking. How about an Alfa Romeo V6 with those lovely chrome manifolds? That would have a nice bark.
Edit: If you're using a Scimitar chassis then how about naming it after another type of sword? Sabre, Rapier................lots of sword types listed here [URL="Types_of_swords"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_swords[/URL]
With the Lancia D24 in mind you're definitely on the right track! Though I'm not entirely sure if it should have a snout exactly like that. Looks a bit like it's vacuuming the road... A bit more upright would be better I think.
200 bhp won't be a problem at all when using the Scimitar chassis. There are lots of owners who converted their Scimitars to a Rover or Chevy V8 for instance, some even with twin turbo's on them... (have a look at [url]www.sporting-reliants.com[/url] for inspiration)
I've also been thinking about a name for the Scimbased special. I agree that a type of sword would fit very well. It's both true to its origins and has a nice sporty, somewhat agressive ring to it. Pity that "Rapier" and "Sabre" are being used or have been used for cars already. The Sabre actually was a sportscar produced by Reliant btw!
May I suggest "Spada" spyder or special? Still a sword and in my opinion it compliments the Italian look and feel of the car.
THANKS FOR THE INPUT GUYS.....I'm following this thread with great interest , It's important to hear other peoples take on your ideas , its easy to get blinkered by your own interpretations sometimes...
Heres the D24 that inspires me ....
They are quite long behind the rear wheels which is important as the Scimitar has quite a bit of overhang in this area ...fuel tank location etc..
I quite like the droopy nose , it takes it away from looking a bit Cobra'ish from the front.....There are loads of Google images of this one to look at...
I'm currently moulding a solid tonneau for one of the Sammio's and will probably modify that for the larger version , I really like the single screen idea for my Scim. based on as well.....
That's impressive.
A bit more upright would be better I think.
