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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #361  
Old 17th January 2012, 20:58
Mike Mike is offline
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Dennis

The original Ford m/c I have is this:



The pattern part new m/c I am fitting is as per the photo in thread no.355

regards
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by denniswpearce View Post
Mike, you wrote "The Ford m/c has 22 stamped on the side".
Not having installed the m/c on my Sportster, I am not sure which one is fitted to mine. It looks identical to Jasons pic but I can only find a small mark on the side nearest the engine and it may well be the number 22 ( will have to get a mirror as it is mostly hidden )
Question for you Mike is " Is the number 22 on the Ford m/c on the side nearest the engine as Jasons pic above please.
Dennis
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  #362  
Old 18th January 2012, 07:38
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MartinClan MartinClan is offline
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I was going to use a BMC4266 from Brakes International. http://www.brakeparts.co.uk

Its a Girling cylinder that seems to be the most common one fitted to the Sierra range. It also seems to also be the one that is favoured by the Locust builders and various other "Seven" lookalikes.

It has three outlets - two at the furthest away from the servo for the fronts and the one closest to the servo for the rears. At 22mm diameter it is fairly close to the BMW 20.6mm diameter. Outlets are 10mm x 1mm which I think is the same as the BMW. Two face towards the engine and one downwards.

Biggest pain for me is that I have only one line going to the front at the moment and so will have to do rather more re-plumbing than I anticipated.

Robin
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  #363  
Old 18th January 2012, 07:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Does anybody know if it matters whether the front brake pipes come off the cylinder outlets nearest the servo or not.

The BMW M/C has the front brakes nearest the servo and the rear brake line off the furthest. The 'Ford' types seem to be the other way round?

I can't think of a good reason why it matters but wonder if anyone knows better?
Some of the BMW M/C are stepped having a different diameter for the pistons that operate the front and rears. I would imagine it only matters if you are using one of these.

Robin
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  #364  
Old 18th January 2012, 08:40
jeremy jeremy is offline
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Default M/c

Mike, My m/c 383059, seems to look identical to the posted expensive one, and from your site, seems to have the same number on yours, two ports towards the engines ,and one downward at the front...but I can't trace where I bought it, but I know I wouldn't have paid big money for it...have I just been lucky that this is the one that I have?
Secondly, is it possible to retro fit flexible short aeroquip hoses to the m/c from my copper lines at the bulkhead? This would make life a lot simpler(my favourite word at the minute)!
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  #365  
Old 18th January 2012, 09:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
I was going to use a BMC4266 from Brakes International. http://www.brakeparts.co.uk

Its a Girling cylinder that seems to be the most common one fitted to the Sierra range. It also seems to also be the one that is favoured by the Locust builders and various other "Seven" lookalikes.

It has three outlets - two at the furthest away from the servo for the fronts and the one closest to the servo for the rears. At 22mm diameter it is fairly close to the BMW 20.6mm diameter. Outlets are 10mm x 1mm which I think is the same as the BMW. Two face towards the engine and one downwards.

Biggest pain for me is that I have only one line going to the front at the moment and so will have to do rather more re-plumbing than I anticipated.

Robin
Robin,
great website! I had not found that one.....

BMC 4052 looks like Jason's M/C complete with the 'cut out'. It's also Ford/Bendix confirmed by Mike's contact and pictures.

I think the equivalent First Line part is FBM4068 which i'll check out at my local motor factors. These are also available on eBay but i would caution anyone ordering one at their own risk because I may not be right.
These are 22.2mm diameter pistons.

The older MK 4 Cortina MC's have a 20.6mm diameter, which is another option. (Less effort, but more travel for the same displaced fluid )

...peter

P.S. you can access the Firstline 'webcat' by using account number 16256 and password 'password'

PLEASE READ POST #525 below before ordering this M/C. THIS PART NUMBER MAY ONLY BE SUITABLE FOR CARS WITH DRUMS AT THE BACK

Last edited by peterux; 13th February 2012 at 20:08.. Reason: additional warning
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  #366  
Old 18th January 2012, 10:32
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Hi to BMW m/c users

John believes he can supply these at £53.00 +VAT = £63.60 +p&p. (I think this will be without the reservoir - but a standard original Sierra reservoir cleans up very well if required).

Has anyone found a lower cost source?

I thought I only paid around £40 for mine, but as I gave up saving invoices (due to the frigtening total cost of my car) I can not be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
The master cylinder I have looks like this one:


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  #367  
Old 18th January 2012, 12:36
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Hi all

I have found my original invoice for my master cylinder, and I bought it off ebay!

Mine was for a Sierra, and does have a 22.2mm bore. However, these are becoming very difficult to source. The ebay seller has Cotina Mk4/5 which could just as easily be used with our adaptor plate.
I have checked with the seller, the projection towards the servo for the Cortina one is only 15mm, and has a diameter of 39mm, so is ideal. Even better for the BMW set up, is the fact that it has a 20.6mm bore, (which I believe one of you said was closer yto the original BMW?)



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-CORTI...item20c15fe003

And best of all they are less than £40 - while stocks last!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully this has solved the last of your major problems - the rest are normal kit car problems!

Regards
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Hi to BMW m/c users

John believes he can supply these at £53.00 +VAT = £63.60 +p&p. (I think this will be without the reservoir - but a standard original Sierra reservoir cleans up very well if required).

Has anyone found a lower cost source?

I thought I only paid around £40 for mine, but as I gave up saving invoices (due to the frigtening total cost of my car) I can not be sure.

Last edited by Mike; 18th January 2012 at 12:38.. Reason: Changed Escort detail to Cortina detail
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  #368  
Old 18th January 2012, 15:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Robin,
great website! I had not found that one.....

BMC 4052 looks like Jason's M/C complete with the 'cut out'. It's also Ford/Bendix confirmed by Mike's contact and pictures.

I think the equivalent First Line part is FBM4068 which i'll check out at my local motor factors. These are also available on eBay but i would caution anyone ordering one at their own risk because I may not be right.
My local motor factor used to do First Line parts but now it appears they use Lucas/TRW parts supplier. Their best price is about £56 +vat and off course no P&P and their picture looked a bit different so I declined to buy one of theirs.

Last edited by peterux; 19th January 2012 at 07:32.. Reason: spelling!
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  #369  
Old 18th January 2012, 20:49
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Default Remote reservoir adaptors

Is anyone planning to go down the remote reservoir route?

As I have now opted for the direct fit Sierra reservoir, I have a pair of the plug in adaptors from the m/c to the push on pipe that go to the remote reservoir - bought at great expense from Marlin, but available at a fraction of the cost!



Anyone intererested, please PM me.

Mike
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  #370  
Old 18th January 2012, 21:47
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Default Servo Kit Trial Fitted

I have trial fitted my servo kit today- I will take it apart to paint the adaptor plate.



I have welded the studs in, front and back of plate, then polished any raised weld flat.


I have drilled a very shallow counter sink in the m/c holes to clear the weld around the very base of the studs. Similarly I have shallow counter sunk the adaptor holes that face the servo studs to clear the raised rivet fixing of the stud base. Strangely this only affected the powder coated servos - all the zinc and Chrome servos were nice and flush.


It all fits very snugly in a Cabrio. There is plenty of clearance to the side.



The reservoir cap comes closest to the underside of the bonnnet, with around 5mm of clearance. But since the master cylinder is fixed, 5mm should be sufficient.
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  #371  
Old 19th January 2012, 14:50
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Hi Rob (Bobnic)
Have sent PM response regarding master cylinder.
Mike
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  #372  
Old 19th January 2012, 16:03
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Default Servo outlet

Thanks to Jason/Goo for the diagram and dimensions for his servo outlet rod,-Mike, did you alter or extend your servo push rod for your m/c in the pictures?
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  #373  
Old 19th January 2012, 16:58
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Jeremy

GOO made me the extension as shown in his drawing. I measured the depth of the m/c and set the pushrod to 1mm less.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
Thanks to Jason/Goo for the diagram and dimensions for his servo outlet rod,-Mike, did you alter or extend your servo push rod for your m/c in the pictures?
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  #374  
Old 20th January 2012, 07:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
.
I have checked with the seller, the projection towards the servo for the Cortina one is only 15mm, and has a diameter of 39mm, so is ideal. Even better for the BMW set up, is the fact that it has a 20.6mm bore, (which I believe one of you said was closer yto the original BMW?)
Mike
Has anyone have any experience of using the Cortina M/C? While it has exactly the correct bore, I wonder if the holes through which the fluid enters are of the correct size to accept the little fitting from Marlin for the remote reservoir? (As I am currently using with the BMW M/C.)

If not it may be a safer bet to go for the Sierra one which has already been used several times?

Cheers

Robin
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  #375  
Old 20th January 2012, 07:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
Has anyone have any experience of using the Cortina M/C? While it has exactly the correct bore, I wonder if the holes through which the fluid enters are of the correct size to accept the little fitting from Marlin for the remote reservoir? (As I am currently using with the BMW M/C.)

If not it may be a safer bet to go for the Sierra one which has already been used several times?

Cheers

Robin

Pick up the phone and ask the seller!

The ebay sellers details are all available through his ebay site
Malcom Harrison
Tel 01603 880217

I would be reasonably sure they will fit, as the Metro rubber seals fit the Ford m/c


As well as Cortinas Mk4/5 he has Escort RS2000 with 20.6mm bore. There are Capri m/c as well, so there will be enough for all.

He will measure the hole diameters and centres.
He is not able to source Sierra m/cs. One of the 7 lookalike companies bought all the remaining stock!

PS - If anyone wants to go remote, I have a pair of elbows at a very reasonable price! But try Marlin first........!!!!!!!

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  #376  
Old 20th January 2012, 12:39
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Default Bingo!

I think I have solved the puzzle of the 'Ford' Master cylinder part number.

After double checking and then realising my BMW master cylinder is actually a dual diameter bore size, I decided to go for a 22mm cylinder.

Based on a hunch that the Marlin supplied M/C it was off a Ford Sierra and Mike's info that it is a Bendix OE, I ordered a BMC4052 from Brakes International.
It arrived today and has the magic numbers 383059 on the side.
It's just like Jason's but with the outlets on the engine side.
It is manufactured by an Italian firm called Cifam. (www.cifam.it)
The logo on the M/c is Ci. It is Cifam part number 202-099.
The Cifam website and catalogue has lots of useful info with pictures, 'where else used' and other suppliers equivalent part numbers.
It is brand new in a sealed box and was delivered to my door about 42 hours after I placed the order!
Manufacturers packing date is 08/07/11 so nice fresh stock.
Total price was £57.96 inc. VAT and courier delivery.

Thanks to Robin for finding www.brakesint.co.uk

I'll be checking all the relevant measurements and post some pictures over the weekend.

...peter

PLEASE READ POST #525 below before ordering this M/C. THIS PART NUMBER MAY ONLY BE SUITABLE FOR CARS WITH DRUMS AT THE BACK

Last edited by peterux; 13th February 2012 at 20:10.. Reason: additional warning added
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  #377  
Old 20th January 2012, 13:37
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Aha! So that logo on the side of mine is Ci! Well spotted, Peter

Mine is exactly the same model, sourced 18 months ago from the ebay seller Mike linked to up-thread.

Mark.
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  #378  
Old 20th January 2012, 15:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
I think I have solved the puzzle of the 'Ford' Master cylinder part number.

After double checking and then realising my BMW master cylinder is actually a dual diameter bore size, I decided to go for a 22mm cylinder.

Based on a hunch that the Marlin supplied M/C it was off a Ford Sierra and Mike's info that it is a Bendix OE, I ordered a BMC4052 from Brakes International.
It arrived today and has the magic numbers 383059 on the side.
It's just like Jason's but with the outlets on the engine side.
It is manufactured by an Italian firm called Cifam. (www.cifam.it)
The logo on the M/c is Ci. It is Cifam part number 202-099.
The Cifam website and catalogue has lots of useful info with pictures, 'where else used' and other suppliers equivalent part numbers.
It is brand new in a sealed box and was delivered to my door about 42 hours after I placed the order!
Manufacturers packing date is 08/07/11 so nice fresh stock.
Total price was £57.96 inc. VAT and courier delivery.

Thanks to Robin for finding www.brakesint.co.uk

I'll be checking all the relevant measurements and post some pictures over the weekend.

...peter
Peter

Can I ask a couple of questions so that others can consider their options?

Have you fitted standard BMW brake parts in the rest of your system?
Do you know the bore size of your original m/c? - you say it is dual diameter bore size? Are you suggesting the two bores are different sizes?

The reason I ask is you are negating a significant part of the impact of increasing the servo pressure, by opting for the larger bore master cylinder.

Robin has stated his BMW bore size is 20.6mm in his standard set up. I know it does not sound much different, but the pressure in the brake system transmitted by the bore is related to the surface area: the bottom line is the 22.2mm m/c will be 16% harder to press than the 20.6mm. This is significant, given the reason for going to all this trouble is to make the brake pedal easier on the leg muscles.

I chose the 22mm bore m/c as it matches the original Ford Sierra spec to go with my Ford Sierra brake set up. The dual servo gets closer to the original Ford 8" servo, so I should have a system as close to Ford's original spec as possible. By opting for the 22mm bore you are making yours 16% harder to press than in the donor BMW (using Robin's bore figure)


There are, of course, other considerations. The pedal travel on the 22mm bore will be 16% less than the 20.6mm bore and it may be felt that this is worth having - I am in no position to comment as I do not know what it feels like in a BMW based car.

I do not wish to suggest you have got it wrong, but others following this thread need to understand that all our cars are not the same, and that a m/c that works in a Ford set up will not necessarily perform the same in the BMW set up. All other things being the same in the brake set up, my preference would be to opt for a m/c with the same size bore as the donor?

Of course you can suggest Jason has fitted the 22mm bore in his BMW set up and is happy. Given the opportunity to do it again with a 20.6mm bore and 16% less effort, but longer pedal, what would he do next time?

Please take this as a constructive question, for the benefit of others who are still able to choose their set up.
Regards
Mike
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  #379  
Old 20th January 2012, 15:55
denniswpearce denniswpearce is offline
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Question for Jason really but anyone who thinks they have the answer feel free to chip in.
Looking at your completed pic of the new installation it would appear that the m/c could be bolted direct onto the new supplied mild steel plate that goes between the servo and the m/c rather than drilling new fixing holes for the studs on which it is mounted. Or is that too simple ?
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  #380  
Old 20th January 2012, 15:59
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Default Reservoirs

Several of you have asked about reservoirs fitting the Sierra BMC. The photo below shows the standard Sierra reservoir on the left: on the right are reservoirs from Mk1 Fiestas. These fit the Sierra BMC.

In my Cabrio headroom above the reservoirs is my critical issue. The Sierra reservoir has a maximum depth of 85mm above the BMC - the Fiestas are 90mm.



Will either of these fit in a Sportster?
Would any one like to try the Fiesta option? They both need a home?

Mike
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