Deni's Miglia Build

[deni]

micky1mo - thank you for your advice. I am afraid I will have to research a bit more about this.

lancelot link - thank you for the tip. I will try to have a chat with Chris and check if it is within my capabilities to do what he did. I like how your Formosas look when they are finished, especially the long nose one.

[Paul L]

Deni – Sorry, I meant to post another reply and forgot.

There is some useful stuff on welding splatter here:

http://weldinganswers.com/7-causes-o...liminate-them/

Keep practising, as I was definitely better at welding by the end of my build compared to the start.

The same can be said for my ability to work with fibreglass, as that also got better as I did more of it.

Have you checked the height/shape of the top of the bulkhead so it is a match for the inside curve of the bodyshell?

As it would be easier to extend the height now and trim it back to fit as required later on.

Good luck, Paul.

[deni]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your comments. You’re right, I am getting better results with more practice.
I have not measured the top of the bulkhead yet, but the idea was (if I decide to use this bulkhead) to make a separate top part and to laminate it to this existing bulkhead copy. I thought it would be easier to finish this part of once the body is in it’s final position and bonded to the subframe.

Cheers,D.

[deni]

Next it was time to decide what needs doing before the body is on. I have bought a new welder and started practicing welding to improve the frame. I have been reluctant to start welding - I have an arc welder but I was not confident that I would be able to use it properly.

My new welder is a flux core, gases MIG welder, which seemed a bit easier to use.



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My first attempt to put the wire in the welder...Inevitable rookie mistake...


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My frame came without the pedals attachment plate and the base for the prop shaft tunnel, so I will have to weld these on. I will also need to strengthen the area around the steering column, brace the area behind the seats and weld a steel tube between the rear outriggers to stiffen the back of the chassis a bit. I will post photos when I start doing this after Christmas.

First practice welds were not good at all, as I had to learn which power and wire speed settings are most suitable, though I have made a bit better welds after a few attempts.

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[deni]

The welds do not look very good, but after a good old hammer test, they appeared to be reasonably strong.
After this trial I bought some welding spray to reduce the splatter.


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Buying a MIG welder was definitely a good decision, and as I am getting more confident with welding I am also starting to enjoy it a bit more.

I would not be able to do more serious structural welding at this stage, but I am confident that I will learn to weld good enough for this purpose. However, I need to practice a bit more.

[deni]

As I need to practice welding a bit more, I wanted to learn how to do fibreglassing too in the mean time. Like welding, I have never done this before and I will need to do it later on.

I bought some supplies and decided to make a copy of the original bulkhead.



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I have used 450g fibreglass matting and a thicker matting called Diolen, which remains more flexible after the resin has cured.



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I stripped and patched up an old and rusty bulkhead and gave it a go.



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[deni]

I painted the bulkhead to make it a bit smoother and applied a release agent to be able to peel off the copy when it is cured.


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I started with the top part. I was happy with my very first fibreglassing attempt.


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Again, not the best looking copy but it is very strong and very light.


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Next time I did the bottom bits and these turned out even better as I had learned from the mistakes doing the top bit. They were also a bit easier to do to be fair.
I have improved the top bit further by applying a couple more layers of CSM, so it looks much smoother. Unfortunately I forgot to make a photo of the finished product.



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Obviously I was planning to use these, as this would mean less welding, less weight and would give a good reference for the possible position of the pedals.

However, later on my mate Johnny dropped the bomb shell... and said that it would be illegal to use fibreglass for the bulkhead and the car would not pass its MOT if I didn't use metal to make the bulkhead.

Needless to say I was a bit disappointed, as I had allowed 1 week of resin curing time for each part before peeling it off, so if this is true I have lost this time.

I have called a few MOT stations to check this, and of course they suggested to use steel, but none of them were 100% sure if fibreglass was illegal.

I would appreciate it if anybody can offer any advice regarding this as I have seen in a couple of forums that some builders used fibreglass bulkheads too and the original kit used to be supplied with a fibreglass bulkhead, so I assumed it was ok.

So much for now. I wish everyone a very happy Christmas and New Year.

Cheers, D.

[Paul L]

Deni - Good to see you back.

I'll write a proper reply to your welding & fibreglassing posts another time.

But just wanted to write a quick answer to this first.

Originally Posted by deni

...I would appreciate it if anybody can offer any advice regarding this...

This is no requirement for a car to have a metal bulkhead to pass an MOT.

As there are plenty of production cars with all fibreglass bodyshells (e.g. Reliant Scimitar, early Lotus Elans, etc.)

Lots of MOT stuff here:
https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....als/class3457/

The references to the bodyshell talk about "structural rigidity" not metal.

Which reminds me, there are a number of supercars built from Carbon Fibre which also don't have steel bulkheads.

So feel free to tell your mate to stand in the corner and think about what he said.

Good luck, Paul.

[Barber]

Wow, well done, and very adventurous too. Having made every rookie mistake with an arc stick welder, I too have been wondering about MIG too. There is one at the communal workshop I attend, so will give it a try after Christmas. Keep up the great work.

[Mister Towed]

Hi Deni, your welding looks to be pretty good to me (if any pro welders disagree, please bear in mind that I'm a self-taught amateur welder myself, so I just mean it looks strong enough for our purposes), while your fibreglassing also looks like it'll do the job, just watch out for bubbles when using the cloth rather than the matting.

As for a fibreglass bulkhead being an mot fail, possibly your mate might have experience of an mot tester failing fibreglass repairs to a corroded structural bulkhead in a monocoque car, but there's nothing in the MOT Testers' manual to suggest that bulkheads need to be metal, otherwise how would fibreglass cars like Lotus Elans, Elites, Europas and Reliant Scimitars pass their MOT's?

The pertinent sections of the MOT manual for us are:

Appendix A, Section 8 - Vehicles with Separate bodies. This accepts that, where a vehicle has a separate chassis and body with supporting sub-structure, it is the integrity of the sub-structure that is critical, not the condition of the body.

Main manual, Section 6 - Body Structure and Attachments. Again, this talks about corrosion but not materials used to construct the vehicle in the first place.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....als/class3457/

Also, it's worth trawling round your local MOT testing stations until you find one who understands classic cars, hot rods and specials as they're far less likely to reject a car on the basis that they just don't understand it.

'My' tester, for example, drives a 70's Toyota Celica with a V6 motor grafted in and is restoring a pre-war Morris. He won't break the rules to get my cars through the test, but he will very carefully read the guidance notes and apply the rules appropriately to a non-standard vehicle.

I'd also point out that, once correctly registered (emphasis to try to avoid any accusation of using photoshopped registration documents from Rochdale GT) your car will almost certainly be MOT exempt anyway.

Having said that, it'll still need to be both safe and road-legal, and I personally will continue to MOT my classics/kits just for the peace of mind of an annual independent safety check.

Anyway, good luck with your Miglia, it looks like you have or are developing all the skills you'll need to do a fine job.

Sorry for repeating some of what Paul says above, I hadn't noticed that he'd posted while I had breakfast.

[deni]

Hi Barber, Paul L and Mister Towed,

Thank you for replying so quickly, on a such a lovely Christmas day.

Barber - Thank you for your comments. I would recommend to try using a MIG welder. It just seems easier to use compared to an Arc welder.

Paul L and Mister Towed - Thank you for your encouragement and advice too, as well as for the clarification regarding the bulkhead, very helpful.

I am still in two minds about the bulkhead. If I decide to use fibreglass one I might clad it with thin, lightweight aluminium just to be safe. Paul I enjoy reading your on the road blog and Mister Towed, I also follow your new roadster build - I hope to see more developments soon.

[deni]

Hi all,

I know that the regulations have changed and that already registered cars, older than 40 years are tax and MOT exempt, but I will continue to MOT my car anyway, just to stay safe (I have another classic car from 1976).

However, I am not sure what happens in our case, when we have to put the car back on the road after the build, so I have a few questions please:

1- I know that in the past people would send the papers to DVLA to change the details on V5 before having their MOT done. Is that still the case please? Can I already send the documentation to DVLA? If not, how do we go on about this currently please?


2- If a donor car is MOT free, is it still required to do your first MOT when you've finished re-body-ing a car?



Thank you.

Cheers, D.

[micky1mo]

Hi Deni, this have changed since the local DVLA offices have closed as every thing is now done by post!!!

To correctly register your car you'll need to fill-out form V627/1 and include receipts, photos ect.

Personally, I send the completed V627/1, the current V5 (with changes clearly marked) , receipts for the body conversion, a good photo of the car before, during and after the conversion (clearly showing the registration number), plus a photo of the chassis plate number or stamp and engine number.
I also included a new MOT certificate, this proves the car has been built to a road worthy standard, confirms the conversion is completed, confirms the chassis number, confirms the colour change and in most cases the MOT tester will change the VOSA details on his computer i.e. model, colour ect.

.IMHO I think DVLA look upon a MOT test as a form of "independent" inspection.

So it's worth sending a few quid getting an MOT test when your build is ready and before you register it.

Another thing to remember is when fill-out the V627/1 you only give basic simple understandable information and never mention "kit" or "used" or "second hand".
In my recent experience and using the info above the re-registering process takes around 2 weeks from posting the paperwork to receiving the up-dated V5.

[deni]

micky1mo - thank you for the advice, very helpful and much appreciated.I am only a bit worried about the fact that I have bought a rolling chassis with engine only, and I don’t have any photos of the donor car before it was stripped down and no original reg plates. I have the chassis plate and correct V5.

Is this going to be a problem?

Thank you.

Cheers,D

[micky1mo]

DVLA are now asking for photos a lot more.

It's now common for them to ask for proof that a car exists ie, photo of the car and VIN location, when applying for a new style V5 replacing the old style blue V5.

Not having a photo of the original car displaying it's original registration number might be an issue and DVLA will probably ask for one.

I would recommend doing some research on your car and you might find a photo or reference to it.

[davecymru]

The Alloy sheets were 2000x1000x1.2mm
The angle was 3/4 x 3/4 / 1/16
Alloy rivets (LOTS of them)
and everything seated and bonded with Tiger Seal (nasty, horrible, sticky stuff that it is to cut out of your hair)

[deni]

Originally Posted by davecymru

...and everything seated and bonded with Tiger Seal (nasty, horrible, sticky stuff that it is to cut out of your hair)

... :-0 ... I have been warned, but I suspect I will end up with some of that nasty stuff in my hair too. Thank you for the info.

Cheers, Deni

[deni]

Hi all,

I've made some progress with my build and have a few more things to do this weekend, so I will post the photos afterwards. In the meantime, I have a question regarding a brake master cylinder.

I have bought a new, updated clutch cylinder with small 3/4 reservoir, but with a larger bore (0.725"). I've been told that I can use the same cylinder for my brakes.

Is the size of the reservoir crucial and will it hold enough of brake fluid for efficient braking (I would like to use this one if possible) or is it necessary to use one with a larger reservoir but a smaller, 0.625" bore?

Any advice would be helpful. My engine is 1500 Spitfire and I have a single brake circuit with discs on the front and the drums on the back wheels.

Thanks, D.

[deni]

For some reason my post from today (see below) did not show in 'New Posts' section, so I will post it again.

Hi all,

I've made some progress with my build and have a few more things to do this weekend, so I will post the photos afterwards. In the meantime, I have a question regarding a brake master cylinder.

I have bought a new, updated clutch cylinder with small 3/4 reservoir, but with a larger bore (0.725"). I've been told that I can use the same cylinder for my brakes.

Is the size of the reservoir crucial and will it hold enough of brake fluid for efficient braking (I would like to use this one if possible) or is it necessary to use one with a larger reservoir but a smaller, 0.625" bore?

Any advice would be helpful. My engine is 1500 Spitfire and I have a single brake circuit with discs on the front and the drums on the back wheels.

Thanks, D.

[Paul L]

Sorry I can't help with the technical stuff (I reused my donor stuff).

But good to hear you are still making progress.

Good luck, Paul.