Chassis for a dino - Page 5

bgullatt · #1 25th February 2018, 12:54

Can you share the Deon chassis info you are building off of? I'm in the states and looking to get started on a chassis. Looking for a good starting point. I will be using a Ford Duratec V6.

Dodo87 · #2 13th March 2018, 15:30

Hi,
I have a Deon and I want to implement on it a Ford 2,5l V6 Duratec. If someone can help me.... Thanks

thecarbuilder246 · #3 14th March 2018, 10:12

Hi

What deon do you have? Is it the one with the lancia engine that takes the whole engine/gearbox and subframe? The later one where it bolts in? Or the ford 2.9 v6 option?
Either way you'll need to drop the engine (lancia) or remove through the top (ford engine ) and offer up your new power unit. You'll need to fabricate new engine/gearbox mounts and position the who unit so the drive line stays where is it now-height and position front back.
You'll need a new exhaust system,water and fuel hook ups etc-big job but anythings possible. Good luck.

ian

rossnzwpi · #4 19th June 2018, 16:26

Hi Ian, any progress on your chassis?
Ross

thecarbuilder246 · #5 20th June 2018, 09:51

Hi

Not much progress really. I've mocked up the chassis in wood and found a source for all running gear. I'm trying to persuade my brother to let me borrow the corner of his workshop so I can construct a build table for my chassis. Purchased 400 quids worth of steel box sections, bought the engine mounts. I had been in contact with TTV racing about a flywheel but never heard back.That's up to date-unfortunately my other half wants some decorating done in the house so projects on hold till I've done that

Dodo87 · #6 21st June 2018, 07:55

Hello,
My car is a Deon, equiped with a 2L Lancia engine.
Thanks for your help.

thecarbuilder246 · #7 18th April 2019, 16:02

Hi all

Finally I've picked up my 246 body shell from cascu, before he upsticks and moves lock stock and barrel to france.. Next up is to put the three wooden mock up deon chassis parts together and sit the shell on top to see what's happening. The deon chassis is 1 and a quarter inches wider than the 246 chassis which isn't a lot. I'll see how it fits but the 246 floor is some 8 inches shorter than the deon!!! I know the 246 engine bay is bigger but 8 inches bigger? I'm not sure

NeilF355 · #8 19th April 2019, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecarbuilder246

Hi all

I'll see how it fits but the 246 floor is some 8 inches shorter than the deon!!! I know the 246 engine bay is bigger but 8 inches bigger? I'm not sure

Hi Ian
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 246 is 4 inches longer than the 206 but all the additional length is in the engine bay. This is borne out by my engine and rear boot lids which I think are from CASCU and which I had to cut down by a couple of inches on each to get them to fit my Classic replicas Dino.
As for the other 4 inches, I have compared my rear bulkhead to pictures of the 246, mine looks to be much closer to the vertical than the original, which, assuming that the rear window is in the same place in both, would give an extra few inches of floor space behind the seats.

Neil

rossnzwpi · #9 20th April 2019, 09:27

Wow, some interesting measurements! A couple of points about Deon and CASCU that might explain some differences:
DEON is a mould of a mould of a mould taken from a genuine Ferrari Dino 206 (wheelbase 2280mm) but the position of the wheel arch was altered on the original mould to match the owner's chassis - which was from a Lotus Europa (2311mm).
I believe CASCU's was moulded from a genuine Ferrari Dino 246 (wheelbase 2340mm) 2340-2311=29mm difference.

Some other points: I read recently that the chrome trim over the side glass of the 206 matches the 246 and that windscreens are interchangeable.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/gallery/D...otus_2_Ferrari

I'm going to measure my front clip from a genuine 246 and post some pictures for comparison.
cheers
Ross

Fibreglass · #10 22nd April 2019, 09:11

Thanks Ian, it was nice to meet you again.
All the Dino moulds and jigs are now safely over in France.
Thanks
Mark

thecarbuilder246 · #11 22nd April 2019, 10:48

Hi All

Sun out, wife out, tinkering time!
I've been out with the measuring stick again. I've took a point from the centre of the wheel arch on the cascu 246 and used some redundant gallows brackets after checking they were square. I've used my level to ensure they where upright and used packers were needed. I've measured across both the front and rear of the 246 shell. I've done the same with the deon shell but only at the front as I can't get to the back just yet without moving a gearbox,spare engine, engine crane and tig welder!!
Very surprised here as the are identical, both are 64 3/4 inches. If the back is the same then I think I'll backward engineer the deon suspension set.

ian

Fibreglass · #12 22nd April 2019, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecarbuilder246

Hi All

Very surprised here as the are identical, both are 64 3/4 inches. If the back is the same then I think I'll backward engineer the deon suspension set.

ian

They should be the same Ian, as the 206 and 246 are the same width, it is one of the few measurements which are the same. I should think the rear will be the same as well, although it is interesting as the track is supposedly 2" wider both front and rear on the 206. This could be due to the wheel offset as the 246 tyres are wider. I wouldn't have thought the wishbones are different as the 246 has the same basic setup as the 308, unless the chassis is quite different. I have never had anything to do with the 206 other than the engines. It is amazing how different the 206 and 246 are as most people just see a Dino.

thecarbuilder246 · #13 22nd April 2019, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fibreglass

Thanks Ian, it was nice to meet you again.
All the Dino moulds and jigs are now safely over in France.
Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark

Yes nice to catch up. Thanks for everything. Wish you well.

ian

thecarbuilder246 · #14 30th April 2019, 14:42

Hi all

I'm not sure about the wind screen. I have both 246 chrome front and rear screen trims, the rear does seem to fit the 206 as well but the front one doesn't fit the 206-it's wider. And I know several jhc and deon builders suffered cracked screens when fitting. One guy in particular who broke 2 remarked to me that the window fitter said the screen seem oversize.

The screen surround is stored at my mums so I'll dig it out and try on cascus 246 and see how it fits. May account for the difference in the door skin.

thecarbuilder246 · #15 3rd May 2019, 11:08

Hi all.

I think you guys may be right in all the extra wheel base length is in the engine bay. I know the original 206 mould was altered to fit the lotus europa chassis and it would appear to me the whole rear of the car was shortened by approx 85mm. I've used a laser and checked the deon wheel base 2255mm (dino 246 2340mm). Some photos of wheel base measurements attached.
I've measure every part of the deon chassis I have and created a wooden mock up which I've had under the cascu shell. Front wheel position and floor pan at the front of the 246 is spot on but it seems deon/jhc cut the chassis rails down and moved the engine cradle forward.
I've cut my wooden mock up in half and I'm going to add in 85 mm and try the cascu shell on again.

ian

thecarbuilder246 · #16 16th May 2019, 13:03

Hi all

After a few weeks of proper work I've had a day off on the dino. Thought I'd look in to where the 85mm needs to go. While I was at cascu's workshop I put my tape measure over various parts of his 246 jig.Comparing them to the deon chassis is another eye opener.
The center floor pan is the same width on both. The outer chassis rails are longer on the cascu 246 but the 246 bulkhead starts further in and at approx 20 degree angle leaning back. The top of the bulkhead on both is the same!
As both the 206 and 246 engine lids are the same I've taken the measure in relation to the wheel arch from that point. The rear chassis rails on the deon are in the right place as regards the boot lid hinge points so this must stay the same resulting in the engine needing moving backwards 85mm in the engine bay. It's going to be tight and I may have to redesign the rear bottom wishbones. Top wishbones are ok as is top mount for coil over. Slowly getting there!
On another point the deon's rear wheel is not central to the wheel arch. It's approx 13mm closer to the front of the arch

rossnzwpi · #17 19th May 2019, 02:42

Hi Ian, good progress on your build! Here's a picture of a 246 Chassis blueprint for reference. Interesting that your rear wheel is not centred in the wheel arch - maybe it is something Deon did to accomodate the Ford V6?? Other pictures of Deon wheel arches I've seen seem to have it pushed in the other direction.
Dino_246_Chassis_blueprint_liveauctioneers.jpg

rossnzwpi · #18 24th April 2019, 02:50

Hi, I just measured the front 246 clip I have from peak of the wheel arch across to the opposite peak - it was 1640mm (approx 64.6") - as near as dammit to your measurement.

thecarbuilder246 · #19 27th April 2019, 10:02

Hi all

After your measurement Ross and cascu's saying the 206 and 246 were the same curiosity got the better of me. I just had to drag the stuff out of the way and measure the deon at the rear. The 246 cascu shell came out at 64 1/4 inch and the deon is exactly the same-who would have thought!!!
So to the chassis. I want to upgrade the uprights and braking but I can used the original deon set up points as a start.

ian

rossnzwpi · #20 27th April 2019, 22:41

It is quite a task to redesign suspension - I'm envious of your skills! I wouldn't trust myself to get suspension right so I'd probably start with a Mazda MX5 (Miata for our American friends). Its front could fit perfectly and its rear would probably need a new top arm, otherwise it would be a good fit. My next step would be to post that plan on the Locost suspension page and get feedback. There are lots of experts there who enjoy offering advice. OZDino on this site had some good basic techniques to use too.

As to Fibreglass's point that the tracks of 206 (and maybe therefore Deon) and 246 are 'a couple of inches wider' - it is true that the 206 was originally listed in a couple of places as 1400 at the rear and the 246 was 1430 at the rear. Tyre width makes no difference to track because track is measured from wheel centre to wheel centre. Wheel offset makes a difference to track.

an early 206 blueprint for chassis
s-l1600.jpg